Kobe had one thing that MJ and Lebron didn't have.

ANd history will also remember what conference that Cavs team played in

Knocked out by a much better team that was SUPPOSED to sweep them that series. How quickly we forget. That Lakers team had no business even making the playoffs that season in the west.

 

We all know the east was weak, but history won't make that distinction. The east was weak in the 80's, but is that held against Bird's legacy? No, history remembers him as the leader of the celtics, a 3 time champion, 3 time MVP, and the best SF of all time (arguable now due to the emergence of Lebron).

History focuses on stats, awards, and championships. B/c of that, Lebron's stock will rise, and Kobe's will fall.

 

A team led by prime Kobe wasn't projected to make the playoffs? And people still think he deserves to be in the top 10 GOAT discussion?

 

Kobe is 5-2 in the Finals, Lebron is 2-3 and his record could get worse.

Let me ask you, do you think losing more finals is better or worse for your legacy?

 

I can also cherry pick stats from 2011 NBA finals where Lebron James averaged 17 ppg against Wade's 26 ppg.

Who was a better team, San Antonio Spurs or Indiana Pacers in 2001? So you're suggesting that Kobe wasn't instrumental in his teams success, right?

In the previous series against a BETTER San Antonio Spurs team, Kobe was 33 PPG, 7 assist, 7 rebounds, 1.5 steals on 51% shooting.

But oh yea, that doesn't matter what so ever. In your world you just hate Kobe regardless of a highly successful career.

 

I don't think it matters. If a player has a garbage team, and he's able to lead them to the finals, it shouldn't be held against him if they lose.

Why should losing in the finals be more of a blemish than losing in the conference finals?

 

Lol so Lebron now has a garbage team?

 

He did when he was with the Cavs.

 

It's not "cherry picking" the finals are when it matters. He played bad in the biggest games of his life, it's that simple. I don't care what he did in the conference finals, that doesn't mean that he played well in the finals. I don't even hate Kobe lol I am just giving you facts. 3 of the first 4 finals he played in, he played like crap. Shaq absolutely dominated those series and led them to the title, whereas Kobe shriveled in the games that mattered most.

Also, using your logic... since the Pacers were worse than the Spurs, Kobe should have done better, yet he didn't. As you are so quick to point out LeBron is 2-3 in the finals, Kobe played horribly in the finals (and if you look at my first post in this thread showing the stats between Kobe/Shaq, you would also see that during the 3 peat Shaq is credited with 3 of the TOP 10 finals performances EVER, while Kobe never even had a top 50 performance). In fact, Kobe had several of the worst finals performances EVER. Just because his team won those series, does not mean that he played better than LeBron during his finals appearances.

I never said that Kobe wasn't successful or a great player, I was merely stating the fact that for his first 3 titles, he was carried by Shaq. If you can't look at those stats and objectively say that Shaq was more important to those teams than Kobe than you are delusional. Lakers fans always seem to ride Kobe's nuts and never give Shaq any credit for those finals performances. Yet, they seem to always forget how poorly Kobe played in those series. Also, the fact that those same Laker fans put Kobe on such a pedestal that they rate him in the top 5 all time; several of them even put him above Jordan....

 

Smush Parker? Kwame Brown? Luke Walton? You're CLEARLY in denial at this point kid

 

Karl Malone
Charles Barkley
Moses Malone
Darrell Dawkins
Kevin Mchale
Kevin Garnett


How long have you been following the NBA again????

 

When talking about Kobe's teams, its amazing how his fans will omit Lamar Odom's name.

If a player is in the top 10 GOAT discussion, his team should always be in the playoff hunt (barring injury).

 

Weren't Darryl Dawkins and Moses Malone considered centers for the majority of their careers?

 

Otis Thorpe
Maurice Lucas
Paul Silas
Chris Webber
Buck Williams
Shawn Kemp
Rasheed Wallace
Elton Brand
Tommy Heinsohn
Connie Hawkins
Dave DeBusschere
Elvin Hayes
Jerry Lucas
Dirk Nowitzki
Bob Pettit
Charles Barkley
Kevin McHale
Kevin Garnett
Karl Malone

I left off Rodman and Worthy. They both were big enough to play power forward. And Worthy actually played often with his back to the basket. But they were both slotted as small forwards most of the time.

And yes, Dawkins and Moses were centers. Elvin Hayes was a cross over center/forward. He played center with the Rockets, but PF with the Bullets, with the shorter (but bigger) Unseld at center.

 

Rank the following:

Jerry West
Dwayne Wade
Kobe BRyant

 

This discussion does make me wonder though, since many of you like to hypothesize.

WHAT IF Thomas had not hit the big three pointer to force overtime in game six of the 06 PHX-LAL series?

I can make some assumptions.

-Kobe would be revered for bringing his A game to defeat the NUMBER ONE seed, which possessed the League MVP Nash. Also, his game 4 2OT buzzer beater would get the credit it deserves. The basketball world would be tilted on its head.

-LAL would've faced LAC in the second round, which was a very winnable scenario. With the building's fans riled up from the previous round's upset, and the Lakers not having to play away games, I see them winning in 6 or 7.

-If LAL went to the conference finals, they'd have faced the Mavericks. Odom was a good match-up for Dirk (mobile, quick, and lengthy). Dallas would have had no answer for Kobe's offense (I think he avg'd 35 ppg that year). I see the series going to seven, with LAL having a fighter's chance.

-Assuming all that happened, Kobe would've faced Miami in the finals. I do not see them winning, though I could see Kobe exploding for a game or two to take the series to five. History then would've told of Kobe and Odom leading a team of D-leaguers to the NBA Finals. No game seven against the Suns, and no rep of "quitting on his team".

Ahhh, but what if? What if?

 

A guy who wasn't the best player on his team for 8 years should be lucky to be included on anyone's top-15 all-time list. That's all I'm sayin'

PS - If Tony Parker gets a FMVP next year, he will ranked equally to Kobe

 

let me step in and give an honest and fair breakdown of kobe...he is arguably one of the most SKILLED players to ever play the game, only 3-4 players can even compare to kobe (hakeem being one of them). He had an even more expansive skill set than Jordan. The difference, as always with kobe, is his shot selection and decision making. So while he was more skilled than just about any player in nba history, his effectiveness/efficiency was far less than his skill set would suggest

 

In their primes

Dwade (by a hair)
Jerry West






Kobe

 

^Damn...