[ClutchFans] Hey, Remember when Jeremy Lin and Omer Asik were on the Rockets?

It was mentioned that Pau Gasol might be a poor fit next to Dwight Howard (in the starting lineup) because he would throw off the floor spacing. Would Al Horford be in the same boat?

From Zach Lowe's Lance Stephenson article today

Just trying to throw some curveball Morey targets out there that perhaps should be considered.

 

I've always thought Gasol's biggest issue next to Howard was defense. The guy is no longer capable of moving fast enough to guard forwards. But in terms of jumpshooting ability, Horford shoots from slightly further out. He's more like a more tamed version of LMA in regards to those long 2s. Roughly the same percentage though.

I will take Horford personally because I think he has a lot more potential on defense. But that's just an assumption since the stats don't seem to peg him as a superior defender like Josh Smith.

Edit: On the subject of the grantland article, I actually wouldn't mind Stephenson at the right price if the Rockets strike out on all the big names. I like him better than Lowry personally. He's high risk. But by declining Parsons' option the Rockets have locked themselves out of FA for the next 3-4 years. What's another $10mil on the books besides Les' wallet?

 

Laker fan here, but I would love to have Lin/Asik + other pieces dumped on us. It would allow us to remain flexible while acquiring assets and having an outside shot at the playoffs.

If you go the sign and trade route (so you can keep the MLE) I would be willing to take Lin + DMO and 2nd round picks and then sign Gasol in place of Asik.

Just thought you might like an outsider's perspective.

 

YES!!!!

 

Uhh, no sir, you are the one who is missing the point.

Backup C in a very good team? Omer Asik would have played more minutes at C than anyone else on the roster of both Eastern and both Western conference finalists. The four best teams in the league.

He would start on over 20 teams. That's 2/3rds of the league. A starting C who is elite at one side of the basketball court is worth a lot of money. Maybe not worth a $15m CAP HIT. But arguably worth a $10m cap hit. Is an $8m cap hit plus a $7m bonus equal in value to a $10m cap hit? For some, not at all. For others, it depends on their roster. For teams above the luxury tax, it can be a bonus. Teams like BKN and NYK don't care about spending money, they only care about their ability to acquire talent.

On a bad team, Asik has little value because he is too good. A team like the Jazz doesn't need Asik because they would rather lose and get a better pick than put a guy in there who will win them some games with his defense.

Go visit some other forums and see what teams are willing to give for Asik. But the Celtics, for example, seem to be willing to absorb all $15m of his salary and actually give us something in return. You understand what that means? That's not expiring deals they're giving us. They can have $15m extra cap space or money in their pockets. They have Olynyk who showed promise as a rookie. They have draft picks now and in the future. Instead, they would want to just essentially pay us $15m and a second round pick or something for Omer Asik. More amazingly, they seem to be most willing to do this if they acquire Kevin Love - meaning they promise Kevin Love they'll be a contender, they sign him, and the person they bring in at $15m to be the starting C of their contender is Omer Asik.

Given your assessment frankly I'd be amazed if you've watched any more of Asik than the last 4-5 playoff games.

 

Wow! I thought about this the other day.. I was thinking, why would Atlanta trade Millsap if he was the one to lead them to the playoffs and not Horford. If we strike out on Melo or Love, Morey should construct a deal for Al? You could either let Lin play out his contract (which is what I would do in this case) or you could trade him for peanuts to have a little extra cash for a Chandler Parsons extension.

 

I like Al. But that would be settling. He can't shoot the 3. We'd be perennial WC Finals participants and ... lose.

 

Unless we trade Harden, we aren't getting Kevin Love.

So I'd take Horford. If healthy.

 

JLFan, is this sarcasm or are you really serious? Nobody could possibly believe the Rockets can win an NBA chip with offense and no defense. It doesn’t work like that. You need to score AND defend. But on the off chance you really are serious, the NBA has a long history of high scoring teams that never won a championship. Ever heard of Doug Moe and The Passing Game (Motion Offense) he installed for the Denver Nuggets? They once scored 184 pts in a game but lost because they gave up 186 to Detroit. Do you remember the 7 Seconds or Less offense installed by Paul Westhead for the ‘Enver Nuggets (media removed the D because they played no defense)? Paul’s team led the league in scoring with 120 PPG but gave up 130 PPG. Neither Nugget team proved a serious threat in the playoffs, despite the prolific scoring. Dantoni’s PG-centric Phoenix Suns teams had good success with Run and Gun but even with a talent-laden team like Steve Nash, Joe Johnson, Amare Stoudemire, Shaun Marion, Boris Diaw, and Raja Bell, inexplicably couldn’t get it done, even with an 8pt differential between OffRtg (111ppg) and DefRtg (103ppg) during the 2004-2005 and 2006-2007 seasons. On the other hand, the high scoring Showtime Lakers won multiple championships utilizing elements of the run and gun in large part because they played good defense. For example, Kareem was named to NBA All Defensive Team eleven times, Michael Cooper eight times, even AC Green made it one year.

The Rockets won’t win a chip relying solely on our offense because opponents will take away either Harden, Howard, or even Melo/Love (if here), and we will need to rely on our defense to stay in games. Melo and Love help with spacing and scoring but until our defense improves (especially at PF) we will continue to struggle in the playoffs. We scored 112 ppg in the playoffs, more than any playoff team, but gave up 112 ppg as well. Dude, that won’t get it done.

 

Elite OFFENSE First.

Then build out the defense.

Elite Offense First.

Then build out the defense.

Elite Offense First.





Anybody watching these Finals?

 

We have offense.

We have no defense.

We have offense.

We have no defense.

 

Maybe I didn't state my case as clearly as I should have. I like the idea of Melo /Love on his team because it upgrades our offense and our defense at PF. But I agree with those who think that Morey should balance frequent changes in player personnel with team chemistry (e.g.; give lineups enough time to gel before shipping them out). My concern is that we don't ship out Asik and/or Lin and take back players that hurt the team defensively. Also, I have no problem with Lowry; his offensive and defensive numbers via DRPM are better than Lin's. Thing is, the Rockets Achille's heel is defense; defense at PF; not defense at PG. We already have the #7 defensive PG in the league (Beverley) as our starter and the #18 best defensive PG in the league (Lin) backing him up. Defensively, the Beverley/Lin combo is top seven in the league (via DRPM). By comparison, our starting PF is one of the worst defender in the league (TJones) via DRPM, near the bottom. And even though DMO's DRPM is solid, it doesn't matter much TJones is better offensively and McHale doesn't play DMo much.

Do you know how lucky we are to have the #5 (via DRPM) defensive center in the league as our starter and the #6 best defensive center in the league as his backup? That's an embarrassment of riches. Do you knows how fortunate we are to have the #7 (via DRPM) best defensive PG in the league as our starter (Beverley) and the #18 best defensive PG in the league as his backup? I worry that some fans undervalue the defensive impact of Asik and Lin based solely on the eye test. Statistics help with player evaluation because they temper personal bias. Again, the point of my post was to show the value of Asik and Lin as primary defenders on our bench.

 

You forgot the word ELITE.


We do not have ELITE offense against championship contenders. You saw elite offense tonight. Gotta have ELITE offense.

 

What are you talking about? McHale's system of iso Harden and post up Dwight is elite!

 

This became more obvious in the playoffs, but signs of it were in the regular season.

We were/are not an elite offense. We have two starters that contribute nothing on offense....Beverley and TJones.

Other than Splitter, every single last Spur brings something to the table on offense.

 

Bingo.

You can holler about us having offense all you want. But it's a mirage. It's a product of up and down basketball during the regular season. When the playoffs begin it's a chess match. Open floor basketball is a rarity.

I keep wondering if guys are watching the Finals when they say we have plenty of offense and need defense. While we do have to upgrade the defense...the most serious problem with our defense is scheme and getting guys to drill down on that end. The reason being is they save it for the offense end. Why do they do that? Because the burden is too great on them on the offensive end. If we don't get another elite offensive player we are going to simply grind Harden and Howard down the same way the old team ground down McGrady and Yao. It won't work. We'll win 50-55 games every season and get cracked in the playoffs.

We have to get that 3rd ELITE offensive option and become an elite half-court offensive team.

In the process of doing that....we're going to improve the defense. There is simply NO QUESTION that Love or Melo or Bosh or Lebron or even Dirk are going to drastically improve our defense....because they are vets that know how to play the game.

In addition to that, with the 3rd offensive option, now Chandler can go back to digging on the defensive end, which is what he did for us 2 years ago when we had a bunch of vets and we didn't need him to be a main offensive option.

Then you add a couple vet 3&D guys on the bench and a backup center like Brendan Haywood and go to war. And you have elite offense and good defense.

 

Some of those teams (i.e. Dallas) might think they can seriously contend for a conference championship with a top 5 defensive center. Look what Dallas did with Tyson Chandler a few years ago. Also, grabbing Asik now gives any team that has a desire to keep him the inside track to resigning him because they will have full bird rights on him. A team that tries to sign Asik in free agency has to either have the cap space or be limited to what ever exception they have available. A team that trades for Asik could resign him for 8 million a year regardless of their cap space.

Imagine Asik next to Duncan next season or Dirk or Horford!

 

When you average 112 points per 100 possessions in the play-offs, you offense is not what lost you the series.

If you average 112 points per 100 possessions in the play-offs, you should win that series every time.

If you average 112 points per 100 possessions in the play-offs and you lose, your defense is the problem... not your offense.


By the way:

The Clippers averaged 110.9 points per 100 possessions and beat the Warriors
The Thunder averaged 102.1 points per 100 possessions and beat the Grizzlies
The Spurs averaged 103.1 points per 100 possessions and beat the Mavericks
The Nets averaged 97.7 points per 100 possessions and beat the Raptors
The Wizards averaged 94.6 points per 100 possessions and beat the Bulls
The Heat averaged 101.8 points per 100 possessions and beat the Bobcats
The Pacers averaged 93.4 points per 100 possessions and beat the Hawks

The Rockets were the most efficient offense in the 1st round of the Play-offs...period. Only 3 teams averaged at least 100 points per 100 possessions and lost the series (The Mavs @ 101.1 / 100 possessions, The Warriors @ 106.4 / 100 possessions and The Rockets @ 112 / 100 possession). No other losing team in the 1st round of the play-offs came close to the Rockets offense in the play-offs. As a matter of fact, only two teams in the entire 1st round of the play-offs came close to the Rockets offense per 100 possessions and that was the Clippers @ 110.9 points per 100 possessions and the team that beat the Rockets... The Trailblazers @ 111.7 points per 100 possessions.

What do those stats tell us? Very simple, The Rockets defense was historically bad, not their offense.

 

You really think Love or Melo would drastically improve our defense?? They are below average defenders...

 

Asik plus 3M for the Boston TE, if Love goes there certainly seems likely.
Lin, the 25 and a lottery protected future first, if Philly wants a PG may be possible. I don't see Lin going anywhere else.