OK so they went to the Eastern Finals and took a strong Knicks team to 7 games. How's that detract from my point of the Bulls without MJ still being stronger than the Heat without LBJ? Or do you think Miami can go 52-17 without LBJ? I like how the personal insult takes the focus from my point to something totally off topic BTW.
In 1993, the top 7 rotational players after Jordan were Pippen (39 mpg), Grant (36 mpg), Armstrong (30 mpg), Cartwright (20 mpg), Scott Williams (19 mpg), Paxson (18 mpg), and Rodney McCray (16 mpg). In 1994, the top 7 rotational players were Pippen (38 mpg), Grant (37 mpg), Armstrong (34 mpg), Pete Myers (25 mpg), Steve Kerr (25 mpg), Toni Kukoc (24 mpg), and Bill Wennington (18 mpg). I omitted Longley and Cartwright b/c they missed a lot of games. By referring to the 1994 Bulls as "Bulls without Jordan", you're implying that the Bulls' rosters were substantially the same from 1993 to 1994. However, the 1994 Bulls had 4 rotational players who weren't on the 1993 team.
Right now I have 1. Jordan (#1 all time on my list) 2. LeBron (4-7 range) 3. Kobe (8-11 range) These are subject to change if I learn of a case or perspective to change them. But Kobe has no real individual argument over LeBron imo. I can also elaborate why team based accolades/stats like rings, resume and winshares and offensive stats like PER are flawed ways to judge individual players.
I didn't know where to put this so i'll just put it here. Lebron needs to start thinking about going the Kobe/Tim Duncan route of becoming a lighter player if he wants his body to last throughout the gruelling NBA season. Yes it will take away many aspects of what's great about his game(ie. bullying in the post and taking contact around the rim) but he needs to make that sacrifice for his speed, agility and longevity. He needs to start morphing into a different player.
Put on an ESPN Classic game of Lebron and Jordan side by side. Then you decide. It's pretty obvious who is more lethal to the game.
LOL weren't you the dude talking about how the Spurs were gonna have an easier time to the finals than Miami?
So how's that still detract from my point that the Bulls without Jordan were still pretty strong? No matter who was on the team they had a 50win season without MJ that first time, and when he got the 3 peat underway the Bulls as a whole set the best win record in NBA history. As we have seen with Hakeem's team accomplishments, no matter how good you are in the NBA to achieve team success you will still need a stacked team, while obv MJ played a huge part to beat the other teams in such a resounding manner you will still need to have a great coach and an amazing supporting cast. That's why people talking about LBJ cHeated his way to his rings is just plain BS, MJ won all his rings with Pippen and PJ and had really good role players like Rodman, Paxson and Kerr on the team at one point or another. If it was all MJ how come he didn't win a ring before Phil and the rest of the Jordanians arrived, he had multiple chances to do it but couldn't get past the Pistons.
Actually you never addressed the point at all, something which is typical of people who don't just want to admit the truth. What you have instead done is: 1) Call me names 2) Say the Bulls without MJ went to the ECF instead of the Finals (irrelevant to my point, a 50 win team is considered strong by any standard) 3) List the players on each roster (again irrelevant, the Bulls team was still strong despite the supposed "revolving door" of players since the most important guys like Pippen and PJ were still present) 4) Tell me to "look it up" Well whatever,I don't really think anything anyone says will change your mind and tbh I don't really care that much. History is on my side, if you told anyone LBJ deserves as much props as MJ 5 years ago you'd be laughed off the forum. At the rate he's going though his accomplishments get harder and harder to ignore, pretty soon LBJ haters are just gonna look sad and pathetic. Well...right now they already are IMHO.
1) You kept saying the 1994 Bulls went to the finals. You deserved to be called out for your stupidity. 2) You're the only one who has said that the 1994 Bulls went to the ECF. Do you know why that is? B/c it's incorrect. 3) How is roster composition irrelevant when you're talking about the overall strength of the roster? 4) You don't need to look up anything. I posted the relevant information. Just keep re-reading it until you see why you're wrong.
The bulls records against the spurs and the rockets from 1991 to 1993 mean nothing. They are regular season games. Take a look at our record against the Spurs this 2014 regular season games. Does that mean anything? Lol. The spurs we handily beat during the regular season are now playing for the FINALS, and we just lost to effin PORTLAND. And also Ewing was a tier below Olajuwon and Robinson? Lol. Olajuwon is in a class all on his own. But Robinson a tier above Ewing? Come on, man. You should know better. And please the guys I mentioned were above average centers rookie or not during those years. Contrast them to the centers we have today, do we have guys like them now?
Regular season games give you a good idea about matchups. Remember the 2007 Mavericks? They won 67 regular season games and lost in the first round against the 8th seed Warriors. In the regular season, the Warriors swept the Mavericks in their head to head matchups. It meant we matched up well against San Antonio. And who cares if we lost to Portland? With our mental mistakes and Harden going MIA, we would've lost to anyone. We beat ourselves. Yes, Robinson is a tier above Ewing. He's closer to Olajuwon than Ewing is to him. The reason that the Spurs/Rockets gave those Bulls trouble was b/c Olajuwon and Robinson were quick, athletic, agile, and they had a solid jumper. The Bulls had no answer. "Above average"? I could've sworn that in your earlier argument, you said they were "great".
If lebron wins the title and finals mvp this season, he will have had a 5 year stretch that was every bit as good as Jordan was in his prime
Jordan: Finals x 6 Finals MVP x 6 Rings x 6 Best Player x 8-10 years Lebron: Finals x 5 Finals MVP x 2 Rings x 2 Best Player x 5-7 years Kobe: Finals x 7 Finals MVP x 2 Rings x 5 Best Player x 3-5 years Its obvious which order I would rank these 3 in the all time list as it currently stands
OMG, your arguments... LOL Just to make a point, didn't the freakin' Brooklyn Nets swept the Heat in the regular season this year? So by your argument, are you saying that they should have swept Miami in the play offs since they were matched up well? :grin: And then you say, that we match up well with San Antonio. BUT... but you also say that with our mental mistakes and Harden going MIA, we would have lost to anyone. To anyone! Does that include SAN ANTONIO? So shall we throw that argument of yours shall we? Regular season games mean nothing. :grin: Dude, they were great centers in their prime. But you mentioned that they were rookies for sometime during Jordan's first threepeat. So I downgraded them to above average during their rookie years. Does that make sense? :grin:
