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[OFFICIAL] VA Scandal thread

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, May 22, 2014.

  1. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    Republicans in this thread bash Obama for this=met with derision for politicizing the event.

    Democrats in this thread bash Bush (or "Prior Administration)=silence
     
  2. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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    if only...

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/hSzeDmKkNcw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  3. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    He was retired General anyway and the problems he walked into were decades in the making. (If you watch the Jon Stewart video, it's been centuries in the making.) The fact that the VA system was not scaled up and prioritized along with the fighting forces (because it's not sexy like 3000 extra tanks) is a national failure; or making promises to young men we couldn't possibly keep to get them to fight and die was.

    To scapegoat one bureaucrat or even one President is a denial of the history.

    Would have been cool if he committed Hari Kari on live TV though.
     
  4. ArtV

    ArtV Member

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    This is waaayyy more than underfunding side effects. This is pure fraud and deceit to help fund the bonuses of those in charge…those underneath the ex-general.

    And while it's quite possible he was just clueless in all this, when this 1st came out there should have been some very serious meetings to get to the bottom of this with changes and or firings within a week. I think Obama gave him enough rope to do his job and right this asap, but his lack of any action gave him no choice but to ask for his resignation. Personally I think he’s clueless through and through and should have fired at this point…not a forced resignation. You can keep your military benefits assuming you retired already, but your government pension should not be an additional bonus income for sitting behind a desk and doing nothing.
     
  5. ArtV

    ArtV Member

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    Can I just bash the govt because both sides are messed up???
     
  6. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    I bash the short-sighted juvenile jingoism that has passed for patriotism in this country since the Russians defeated the Germans in WWII.
     
  7. Joshfast

    Joshfast "We're all gonna die" - Billy Sole
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    You should bash both sides extremist for sure.
     
  8. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    I get that you were attempting to be controversial, but don't you lose credibility when you are claiming that some are "short-sighted" then pointing to one side of a 2 front war that met in the middle as being one to "defeat" the enemy. Neither the Eastern or Western front succeeds without the other front to divide the forces. I don't doubt you know this, so what I'm really asking is for you to stop being intellectually dishonest.
     
  9. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    Just pointing out the hubris. Most Americans think We won WWII with our sheer exceptionalism.

    * never intended to be a factual statement
     
  10. TheresTheDagger

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    Your self loathing for this country is duly noted.

    The Soviets would NEVER have won without the following.

    1. Lend lease items supplied through the Murmansk Convoys.

    Aircraft.............................14,795
    Tanks.................................7,056
    Jeeps................................51,503
    Trucks..............................375,883
    Motorcycles..........................35,170
    Tractors..............................8,071
    Guns..................................8,218
    Machine guns........................131,633
    Explosives..........................345,735 tons
    Building equipment valued.......$10,910,000
    Railroad freight cars................11,155
    Locomotives...........................1,981
    Cargo ships..............................90
    Submarine hunters.......................105
    Torpedo boats...........................197
    Ship engines..........................7,784
    Food supplies.....................4,478,000 tons
    Machines and equipment.......$1,078,965,000
    Noniron metals......................802,000 tons
    Petroleum products................2,670,000 tons
    Chemicals...........................842,000 tons
    Cotton..........................106,893,000 tons
    Leather..............................49,860 tons
    Tires.............................3,786,000
    Army boots.......................15,417,000 pairs

    And lets not forget the most important item of all...

    FOOD. 1.75 million TONS of food.

    2. Second and Third fronts

    Along with the Brits, we tied down and fought 1.5 million axis troops on the Western front and .5 million on the Mediterranean front.

    3. The Strategic Bombing of Germany.

    In 1945 Nazi Albert Speer stated. "Germany produced 35% fewer tanks, 31% fewer aircraft, 42% fewer lorries and ....fatally weakened their response due to the effects of Allied bombing."

    Also: In June 1944, just 56,000t of oil had been produced against the planned total of 198,000 tons. Consumption was well above stocks produced since mid-May 1944 so that by the end of June 1944, it had been reduced to a reserve of just 410,000t, a 70% reduction from 30 April 1944. ULTRA intercepts confirmed cutbacks in non-operational flying as a direct consequence. According to Speer, by 21 July 1944 98% of all Axis fuel plants were out of operation. The monthly production fell from 180,000t in March 1944 to 20,000t in November; inventory dropped from 575,000t to 159,000t. The campaign caused huge shortfalls in fuel production and contributed to the impotence of the Luftwaffe in the last 12 months of the war, and the inability of the German Army to conduct counter offensives.

    This also says NOTHING about how much effort the Germans put into defending their homeland. For example, in January 1943, the flak arm of the Luftware spent 39 million Reichsmarks, while the rest of the German military spent a total of 93 million Reichsmarks on weapons and munitions production. That's 30% of their total weapons and munitions production.

    In addition, the 8th Air force shot down over 6,000 German aircraft during the war.

    4. We did all this while fighting another big war in the Pacific.

    And ALL OF THIS says nothing about the the fact the United States almost single-handedly defeated the JAPANESE EMPIRE...the front you seem to have conveniently forgotten.

    Did the United States win this war by itself? Of course not. England kept it winnable by not capitulating during the first year when it was all alone.

    The Soviets spilt more blood BY FAR than any other nation in winning WWII.

    But to discount the impact the United States had in winning WWII is beyond ridiculous.
     
  11. brantonli24

    brantonli24 Member

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    Considering Obama managed to push through his healthcare bill (finally), I wonder will he try to deal with the VA scandal as his last magic trick. Or leave it for Hilary to do.
     
  12. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    I'm not sure how we got off on this track but the US had the distinct advantage of being protected by two oceans and joining in late. We could sit back an manufacture with impunity, as per your lst.

    My disdain is for those who play up the glory of war without providing for it's costs, both actual and residual i.e. caring for the veterans and paying for the spent hardware, $50 billion, with tax cuts.

    (I wanted to type brazillion but I didn't want Bobby to cast aspersions on my intellectual honesty)
     
  13. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Well, she did vote for the war so....;)
     
  14. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    I never hear anything positive out of the repubs -- their policy seems to be negative finger pointing and faux scandals.

    Repubs, what are you doing to make the average Americans' life better?
     
  15. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Privatization, tax cuts, free trade, and dergulation.

    And more 'Merica flags
     
  16. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    * 'Murica
     
  17. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    ti;dw

    (tried it; didn't work)
     
  18. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  19. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Two of my best friends work at the VA. They and their friends are working their asses off. Both are in direct treatment. One is a ptsd therapist. You just can't say shorten all your therapy sessions by 50%. The other is a doctor.

    They should not be hiding the waiting lists, but you can't just keep asking the folks working there to do more.

    You can't just start wars, create many more wounded veterans and not expand the number of employees because you hate taxes and government.

    Also apparently some Vets who were not eligible for VA medical treatment have been able to choose the VA as their provider under Obamcare according to a vet I saw on TV.

    That Vet claimed that aside from the usual Obama derangement folks, the forces pushing the scandal are the same folks who want to privatize education, the post office etc. so they can make a buck.
     
  20. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2014/06/05/mccain-sanders-va-health-care/10021185/

    WASHINGTON--Two leading senators announced a deal Thursday on legislation to address growing concerns about the timely care of veterans at medical facilities nationwide.

    Senate Veterans Affairs Committee Chairman Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., and Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., a Vietnam War veteran, announced the compromise on the Senate floor.

    The legislation allows the construction of 26 major medical facilities in 18 states around the country and authorize $500 million in unobligated funds to hiring new doctors and health care providers. More facilities and more doctors will mitigate the long waiting times facing veterans. The legislation would also include a two-year trial program to make it easier for veterans to seek private care if VA care is inaccessible, as well as grant greater authority to the VA secretary to fire senior executives.

    The package also includes provisions related to treating victims of military sexual assault, as well as a provision to help veterans pay for college.

    "Reaching a compromise among people who look at the world very different is not easy," Sanders said. "But right now we have a crisis on our hands and it is imperative that we deal with that crisis."

    The two senators had released competing proposals this week. Their ability to reach a compromise so quickly underscores how seriously Congress is taking the brewing controversy.

    A recent inspector generals report found that veterans have been waiting up to four months to receive treatment, and that VA works in some instances altered records to hide long waiting times. Sanders said the deal addresses the waiting times. He said that veterans' health care overall is not the problem.

    "When people get in to the VA, the quality of the care they get is good," Sanders said.
     

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