No need to apologize, the bashing gets to me as well. But, there are a lot of knowledgable posters on here as well as bashers. BTW, welcome to the board.
Not a bad trade.......but where does this leave Desmond Mason and/or Redd if Jones goes to the Bucks? I doubt that the Bucks would take Jones and also send a decent future pick. Would it be feasible to all if it was altered where D Mason went to the Heat and the future pick from the Bucks to the Heat was any first round pick (or a second round pick)? That would give Miami several low contract players at the 2 - 3 to repackage for something else. Miami wants/needs to chop the contracts of Jones & Grant into smaller chunks that allow some flex in future trade scenarios and it will cost them something to do it. I could do without Cassell.....rather have D Mason, Redd or Payton. I know that Payton's contract situation makes it <i>difficult</i> to put him in any trade scenarios.........<i>but</i>. Are you sure that Jones can play the <b>3</b> in the West? If Grant is replaced on the Heat roster by Taylor, they have more offense, but less rebounding ability. Cato? I haven't used the RealGM trade thing to have a knack for using it.......so not sure if you could crank something like this out of it. Francis | Gaines, Diaw, Hinrich etc | ? Jones? | Francis | Redd? | Mason? Posey? | Rice? | Boki? | Jones? Grant | EG | ? Ming | Pavel Podkolzine?| ? If Payton could have been worked into the above roster....... If the Rockets are able to snag a high enough pick out of the dealing that they could split it for two picks to get a PG and a Center to replace Cato......then it might be worth exploring. Grant would be the vet for the young front court and Jones would be the vet for the young back court. Would Grant & Jones be coming off the books when the younger guys would be getting ready for their renewals? Grant & EG could be played together to cover some center minutes early in the season while the rookie gets adjusted. The possibilties are much wider when the third team is involved. When the Francis deal went down, the Magic stepped in to help make the trade work. The catch in all of these trade possibilties is that the Rockets are currently without a coach. They need to get this settled ASAP so the direction for the team is decided. Until that is done........any signiifcant moves are unlikely. I don't post often in the trade threads............but this is more interesting than another JVG thread.
Rice/Taylor/Mobley/Chicago's Drew obligation (2 high second round picks) Mobley, Taylor and 2 picks for Grant and Cassell? No way. I see where you're going. Grant is the tough PF we need and i'd trade Taylor for him no problem because he'd be able to enforce for Yao while Griffen gets some quality coaching for once. Cassell for Mobley allows us to move Francis over to the 2 spot and hand the reigns to an experienced PG. I don't like it, I know their trade value is about the same but Cassell is 6 years older than Mobley and can't possibly get any better in the few years he has left. Payton is a year older and much better. If you're going old get the best they have to offer. Either way I don't want to break up this backcourt until we see them in an upbeat, motion offense. I still believe these kids are special..
Do you think the Bucks would take Jones and move up only a few picks for the trouble? I am not a Sam fan either. If Grant is the only major contract that leaves the Heat, then create a smaller deal to examine.
Mango, Mason plays the SF position for Milwaukee & they've got Redd coming off the bench. I doubt they'd want to give either of them up, but you never know. Payton will get a fat contract offer from someone, but I'll bet that Milwaukee matches it & keeps him. In this scenario, I would want Cassell to play PG so we can slide Francis over to the 2. Neither Mason or Redd could play the PG as you well know. We could leave Francis at the PG position, but his assist/turnover ratio is atrocious. Thus, my desire to get a PG. Even though Cassell is considered a ball hog by many, he has an assist to turnover rate of between 2.5/1 & 3/1. Francis's is 1.68/1. If we could convince the Clippers to get involved in the deal & make it a 4 team trade. Maybe we could get them to take Cassell & sign-n-trade Miller to us. I'd be in hog heaven then. Unfortunately, that's not too likely to happen. Yes, I think Jones could play SF in the west. The majority of the SF's are 6'7" to 6'8" tall. Jones only gives up an inch or two. Since he's used to guarding the quicker SG's, I don't see why he couldn't guard the SF's. As for your last trade request. Including Cato & dropping Rice from the deal negates the salary cap benefit that Miami would've gotten with Rice's expiring contract & I think Miami would balk at that. Also, trading the #5 pick for two #1 picks means that you have 2 guaranteed contracts instead of one, with no guarantees that either one will contribute. Ultimately, you're right. We won't have the slightest idea which way the club will move until they hire a new coach.
Then I guess we're back to my original trade proposal. Houston sends Mobley/Taylor/Rice/future #1 pick to Miami. Miami sends Jones/Grant/the #5 pick this year to Houston. See my first post for an explanation of this trade proposal.
which I still don't like. I'm sure something for just Grant and change can be worked out. Jones is not going to make this a better team so I don't want him. No way do I take him over Mobley until we see what a new coach is able to do with this backcourt. Grant will seriously toughen up our post. Moving someone like rice or taylor and change is fine.
The rumored trade before the trade deadline was Taylor/Mobley for Grant. There's no way that I'd do that. If they gave us the #5 pick, without us sending a future #1 pick back to them, or exchanged the #5 pick for the Chicago Drew obligation of 2 second round picks, then I'd have to think about it. But, I'm not real sure about it.
I'd throw in Francis to sweeten up the deal if Miami threw in Caron. And a package trade with Miami could be figured out that would get around Francis' BYC issues given the total salaries to be exchanged will be so high (see analysis in the Garnett thread). Starting line-up: Ford Jones Butler Grant Yao Then Jones and his big contract could take over from Steve as most-hated on this BBS!
Apparently Miami is looking to trade for another veteran, trading away the pick (surprise surprise). The rumor is that Riley wants Shareef Abdur-Rahim.
Miami is looking to move the pick as to create more cap room to go after F.A. this summer. All they want is a future draft pick in return. We could offer them our 1st rounder next year ( since we'll most likely be in the play offs it won't be worth much) and the Chicago obligation as well. Heck, i'd even throw in Mooch if they want him. Their #5 pick would probably land them(us) Chris Bosh, since Toronto #4 will probably take T.J. Ford. I'd probably even trade Eddie for Bosh, straight up. That kid is awesome! 6-11 loves to play in the paint, is aggressive and has a nice stroke from outside.
Miami is looking to move the pick as to create more cap room to go after F.A. this summer. All they want is a future draft pick in return. We could offer them our 1st rounder next year ( since we'll most likely be in the play offs it won't be worth much) and the Chicago obligation as well. Heck, i'd even throw in Mooch if they want him. Are you actually suggesting that Miami would trade the #5 pick in the draft for a future low first rounder and two second rounders? I'd probably even trade Eddie for Bosh, straight up. Or that they'd trade the #5 pick for a thus-far disappointing ex-#7 pick?
Uhh...let's see....... YEA. Why would they???here's the link I thought I was being generous by adding two secound rounders the deal. Eddie is still percieved as a good young player that still has a bright future ahead, as long as his pot smoking woes are behind them.
Uhh...let's see....... YEA. Why would they???here's the link I thought I was being generous by adding two secound rounders the deal. You REALLY don't think they could get anything better than a future ~#20 pick & future second round scrubs for the current #5 pick in the draft? Wow.
o.k. so they could probably get a better deal elsewhere than what I offered initially. I'm obviously a little bias, but you're acting like the second coming of a Heat fan. Our 1st rounder next year will be in the mid to late teens, not 20's. Look, Miami is looking to cut salary while improving the team. They're looking to free up cap space for vets. A mid to late 1st rounder next season and two options in the second round is perfect for them, they need backup hustle role players at a reletively cheap salary that wouldn't have to be guaranteed. stop having a cow.
Look, Miami is looking to cut salary while improving the team. Yes, the key is that second part. Trading a franchise pick for a low first rounder isn't improving the team. They're looking to free up cap space for vets. Not at the expense of their team. If the Rockets were looking to clear cap space, would you think trading Griffin, Francis and/or Ming for a low first-rounder made sense? (that's the potential of a #5 pick) A mid to late 1st rounder next season and two options in the second round is perfect for them, they need backup hustle role players at a reletively cheap salary that wouldn't have to be guaranteed. Yes, they need hustle role players to complement their array of non-existent star players. We traded 3 top-20 picks for the #7 pick a couple of years ago -- and if Griffin pans out as hoped, we will have gotten the better end of that deal. And here the Heat are trading a #5 pick for 1 future top-20 pick and some second round crap?
If, Griffin pans out as hoped, (that if is a HUGE if and so far and most likely, the Nets got the best of that deal) Hope leads to despiration. Admit it, we screwed ourselves in that deal to cut salary and go on potential. Second, Bosh is not a "franchise" type player. He's a 6-11 kid thats as heavy as a chubby 8th grader and as raw a player on offense. Griffin had a lot better freshman year in college than Bosh did and was a little more polished offensively. I just hate the fact that Eddie hikes up so many damn 3's. It makes our front court that much weaker when our 4 thinks he's a 2.
Any deal Miami makes with their #5 pick is going to involve Grant, Jones, or both. Otherwise, it makes no sense for them to trade it.
How about the Rockets trade Glen Rice, Eddie Griffin, our second rounder and maybe future picks for Brian Grant and #5. I think it would work, or at least be close, capwise, and the Heat would have the extra money next summer when Rice's contract is up.
