Houston trades: SG Cuttino Mobley (17.5 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 2.9 apg in 41.7 minutes) Houston receives: PG Alvin Williams (13.2 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 5.3 apg in 33.9 minutes) + 2nd round pick Change in team outlook: -4.3 ppg, -1.1 rpg, and +2.4 apg. Trade accepted. Just to add to the tables *** MPG FG% FT% 3% TO A/TO AW 33.9 43.4 85.8 35.2 2.3 3.25 CM 41.7 43.8 78.2 32.9 1.4 1.25 Toronto may very well select TJ Ford with the 4th pick. That really makes A. Williams quite expendable. I really think this trade could help both teams. Unlike with SF--I believe TJ and Cat would be a very complimentary tandem. From Toronto's perspective, TJ is a pass first PG who now would have Mobley and Carter in the wing spots to get up and down the floor and score. Mobley is a whole lot better at this than a lot of people here admit--he is close to a 20PPG scorer the last two years with solid numbers from the field, 3 line, and is an excellent foul shooter. He also has been far more injury free than Carter or Murray, and Mo Pete has just shown himself as better suited as a back-up--thus Mobley's consistent production, healthyness and steady high-minute contributions are all big pluses for Toronto. From Houston's perspective. I think Cat is a shade better player than Williams--he certainly has been healthier and plays more minutes--but I think Williams would so much better compliment to Francis. Williams is very steady--good leader, organizer and fundamental player (e.g., fine A/TO ratio), and though not the offensive player Cat is, shoots in a close enough ballpark he makes you pay if you leave him open. Defensively, it is close to a wash, but I'd give a slight edge to Williams because he can probably guard SGs about as well as Mobley--and is better against PGs. Williams is versitel enough where we could always have Francis guarding the opponents weaker guard. I think this trade makes both teams better. One thing that concerns me is Williams doesn't play quite as heavy minutes as Cat, and is going through arthro ankle surgery right now. Thus I would also ask for a 2nd round pick. Either this year's #31 (almost like a late 1st) if they get it from Cleveland, or I want the #52 this year plus another future 2nd rounder--probably next years. I really like Cat, much better than most on this board and I think we really underestimate his overall contributions--I just think this trade makes both teams much better. Again though this is predicated on Toronto selecting Ford--though most recent projections seems to think this is fairly likely. On 2nd thought a variant of this trade could also land us Williams via a 3 way (Dre to Tor, Cat to LAC) or Dre (Cat to Tor, AW to LAC, or just 2 way with LAC and Hou) though I think AW is a better fit for us--so maybe it isn't all predicated on Ford.
Great, very thorough post. I would probably do this, but I think Cat's upside is higher than Alvin's though. Insert Snow for Williams.........
Alvin williams was 22nd or so in assists last year, handing out 5 a game. Yeah it was a bad team, but he is average at best.
i love williams...there are only a few pgs out there that are big enough to entertain moving steve to the 2 guard...a will is one of them....he'll never be a superstar, but his defense and decent playmaking ability would be a definate plus.....id make the trade
Mobley for Williams and a 2nd round pick. Mobley is better than Williams. Williams is the leader of the Raptors. I'd like him. I don't know if the Raptors will give him up...unless they get TJ Ford. But hmm......don't know if they will get TJ Ford. They need some help in frontcourt. I'd like Williams......even though Snow is a little better.
Sam-He's also #6 in AST/TO ratio. The whole basis for this move is to make a better decision-making backcourt. Interesting idea, but actually I don't think it makes sense for Toronto from a balance perspective. It all comes down to VC. Most think he's too soft to play the 3. Throw in Mo Pete, who is all more of a 2. I can't see them adding another 2, a small 2 at that. Talent wise, I think it's a pretty even deal. Fairly similar contracts, ages, and talent
Ratio is nice, it's true he doesn't turn the ball over that much, but he doesn't find his teammates that much either. He's a better decision maker because he never has to make decisions. Kidd, Payton, Stockton, NAsh, and all the top notch passer/playmakers all had significantly higher ratios than Wiliams.
i agree. i have to go back on my word and say that the rockets should keep mobley under one circumstance... ... that we make his buttocks come off of the bench as the 6th man. the last season that cuttino came off of the bench, he was second in voting in the 6th man of the year award after leading all reserves in scoring. this seems to be the only logical way of breaking up the backcourt. i mean, the dude is too much of a scoring threat and with a bargain contract to boot to consider trading him. otherwise a player that we get in return will would most likely be someone that carrol dawson would end up signing to a fat contract if they don't already have one... f'ing up our salary cap more than it already is. if cuttino stays in the starting lineup, who is are scoring threat off of the bench? if cuttino stays in the starting lineup, how will the ball be distributed among him, francis, and yao while attempting to make the playoffs? bench is ass'prin.
You are definitely right.... Alvin Williams is not a true ball distributor... he's more of a combo guard with solid, fundamental passing skills. Like an Eric Snow with more size and scoring ability but less passing ability. If you looked at those 5 assists a game, not many of them were because he drove and dished or drove and kicked. Most of them were timely bounce or swing passes on the outside to mopete (missed more than he made), a good dump inside to antonio davis, or pass to a cutting JYD. It could have been the Raptor's anemic offense the way that he got those assists, but I think he's just not a break your ankles sort of player. But his A/TO ratio has always been awesome. He doesn't take a lot of risks and doesn't make a lot of mistakes, which at this point would really help the Rockets. At times last year they played too much without discipline. Alvin would be a steadying influence. That's just the way he plays. Offensively he's an improved jump shooter inside the 3pt line and will knock down and occasional 3 to keep you honest. Plus I read somewhere that 40% of his points came in the 4th quarter 2 years ago. Don't know about last year. Defensively, he's much better than Mobley. Longer, taller, he can harass both 1s and 2s. I've seen him pick the pockets of a PG many times, which you hardly see from Mobley. Mobley's steals came mostly from ambushing passing lanes. Mobley's increase and steals this year can be attributed directly to Yao's presence in the middle, which allowed him to take more risks on the defensive end. All this said, he'd be great with Stevie. Steve is already such a good passer, the Rockets don't really need a true ball distributor. With Alvin, we'd have 2 combo guards, one with more scoring ability, one with more passing ability. One flashy, one steady. Francis would score 25 and dish 5 dimes, Yao would his 25 and 12 rebounds, Alvin his 17 pts and 7 assists, Cato his 2 allley-oops from Stevie, Rockets win, and everyone goes home happy. Sounds pretty good, right?
Omega, the problem I have with your idea is we have noone close to high enough caliber to send Mobley to the bench. Mobley is our 3rd best player--I think we are going to have to trade someone (Mobley, Griff) for another guard to put together a backcourt better than Mobley-Francis. NIKEstrad, not sure about Toronto's 2/3 positions. Mo Pete really isn't a starting caliber player, Mobley is much better than him. Carter (3) and Mobley (2) around Ford would be much more formidable than Carter (2) and Pete (3) or Carter and Murray--plus the latter two are very brittle where as Mobley is not. If they draft TJ, AW will really be squezzed and getting Mobley would really help them. Sam, but we can't get a player of that caliber unless you trade Francis. A. Williams is better than half the starting 2s in the league though and would compliment Francis. Also, I don't see A. Williams as an big time playmaker--but more of a steady organizer, defender, and disciplined leader. Francis would still be our playmaker in the half court set once Williams brought the ball up and got the players settled where they are supposed to be thus simplifying Francis role as Snow does for Iverson. gr-8--I agree Cats upside is better, that is why I want some additional compensation. However I think Williams is a better fit than Snow. He is healthier and has 3 point range whereas Snow does not. Oski--you must look to TO ratio. Plus, those 5 assists from AW in addition to Francis 5-6 while also reducing our backcourt TOs does not look so bad now does it?
Alvin Williams is garbage. I'm convinced that Cuttino will shine with Larry Brown all over his ass next year. Brown will bench Cat every time he runs down the court and heaves up a 3 pointer.
i agree. larry's too much of a cat lover (no pun intended) to trade him. he's praised the guy too much. i'm sure eddie griffin will garner something for a point guard that can distribute the ball... and not so much an offensive force.
Praise comes before a trade . I like Williams with Francis. He just got scoped, though. Need to check that. Personally, I'd rather trade MoT for Williams and Mo Pete. Now, cat lovers, how do you like that? Williams, Francis, and Mobely - three guards. Francis gets to score, Cat gets to score, Williams swings them and yao the ball. Really, that's all we want from our pg - exactly what you described Williams doing. Swing it, dump it, shoot it, play some d. We got enough crossover specialists.
So the Raptors are going to trade their starting point guard and starting small forward for our back up power forward?
He would provide front court scoring, which Toronto needs, paired with Antonio at C. Taylor looks pretty good in the East. Jerome could play back up. Look, I'd be glad to trade for Hakeem's contract and A. Williams to make salaries work. Mo Pete is just a throw in. I thought he (MP) was on the outs there. Replace Taylor with Cato, if you have to. Find a DeClerq or Voskhul instead for fair money. We're better off with Williams, and Toronto is better off with a new big man.
Probably one of Larry Brown's first assessments would be, Will Cuttino Mobley come off the bench as 6th man or will his ego screw that up? If you traded Rice + EG for Shareef, then you could have MoT and Cat leading the second team. I still think he might try to trade Cat for Larry Hughes, but that would be trading one coach's pet (Rudy's pet Cat) for another (Larry always regretted trading away Hughes).
