Has it finally happened? Have we found a replacement for Mobley?

One thing is sure, replacement of Mobley is much easier to find then Francis and Yao's

 

What good is 6 assist per game at 3.7-4.0 turnover per game?

If you are going to average 3.7-4.0 turnovers per game, you better get 9+ assist per game to off-set that stat.

A 3.7-4.0 turnover per game stat with 6.2 assist per game devalues Francis's 21.0 ppg average greatly.

 

Shaq is probably the initiator of the offense at least as much as Kobe, whereas Brent Barry is another PG. Ray Allen plays the 2, as did Payton when he was still there this year. They realized Barry was a passer while Payton was a much better scorer. Guys whose main job is scoring (Shaq, Cat) have a worse AST/TO ratio than guys whose main job is setting up teammates (Barry, supposedly Francis)

Except Mobley isn't now averaging 8 ppg, nor was his average 12 in 2000-2001. He hasn't averaged below 17.5 since becoming a starter, and that only because he was unselfish and deferred to Yao (4 less shots per game). Not all the starting guards on the team did the same. You gave two examples of guys that almost matched Mobes's numbers in one-hit seasons. Find a non-superstar that scores as well as Mobley consistently.

Instead of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, I suggest trading it to a team that has a square hole for some round pegs.

I'm not the one obsessed with exclusivity. Your the one who said Mobley's numbers where nothing special, and only made him decent.

There are things Francis does better (passing, rebounding), and things Mobley does better (shooting, defense, $$$). I would say who is better, or more importantly fits the team better, depends on what you are looking for.

Those aren't the only stats that matter, just the most important. No one would say Steve is the best point guard, Mo Taylor is the best power forward, or Brent Barry is the best shooting guard. And just look at how everyone fawns over Iverson, who is all about scoring. Francis makes about twice what JWill makes, Mobley half of what Stack makes, and Brian Grant is an old guy on a max contract. Instead, let us trade Francis for Arenas (Francis Lite) and Troy Murphy.

 

I hate you. I thought that this thread fortold a Messianic trade scenario which involved us getting rid of Mobley once and for all.

Shame on you and your misleading thread titles.

 

You didn't exactly help your point with the Payton. Even if you call Payton in Seattle the SG (which he wasn't), he averaged an even more sparkling AST/TO than Barry- 3.5 AST/TO. Which brings us back to how, for lack of a better word, dumb our backcourt is collectively.

I think you pinpointed the problem- Mobley's main job is to score, and he's not really good at much else- certainly not passing or rebounding, and despite probably being our best perimeter defender outside Posey/Hawkins, he's not a superb defender. I don't think he can take precedence over Francis (which is really the crux of the thread), and we're not going to win if he takes precedence over Yao. Out of my 3rd option, I want guys that will do other things than just score. Heck, I want that out of my 2nd option.

You're putting words in my mouth now. I did say it was nothing special, you're now adding the "only decent" part. Allow me to clarify. I really do like Mobley, just not in tandem with Francis. I consider him a lot more than decent. He is a good, really good even, but not special. Scoring in the low 20s, with very mild assist and rebound totals, and decent defense is not special. Francis, consistently putting up 20-6-6 as a 6-3 guard is special. Mobley is an extra piece to a puzzle (IMO, a different one than the one we're trying to form). Francis is a big piece to a puzzle. You can build a team around Francis and Yao; you can't build a team around Mobley and Yao.

You mentioned how people like Iverson- allegedly, the Sixers want to trade him. He's not mentioned as the top SG anymore; that debate goes between Kobe and TMac, 2 guys who have triple double capabilities. Stackhouse was a scoring machine a few seasons ago, put up near 30, and scored consistently around 20 for awhile now. But Detroit traded him because he was disruptive to the offense and doesn't really do anything else well. They basically swapped him for Rip Hamilton, who plays a different style, not needing the ball to get in position to score, and they're in the conference finals.

If we're getting a legit stud for Francis, I wouldn't be afraid of pulling the trigger. I would probably be willing to move Francis for Brand or Jermaine O'Neal assuming we can get a PG in some fashion. Of course I'd do it for Kidd. But no thanks for Arenas and Murphy.

 

Mobley is a very good SG. And he should be treated as such.

Payton was an exceptional SCORING PG!

If Francis plays his cards right, he could be the same type of player that Payton was, minus the defense (?).

 

Great point.That's why we can't pass ball and motavite all players.

 

Excellent points Nike, couldnt have said it better myself. Mobley is in the 2nd tier of SGs and is a good but not great player. This whole argument about trying to reduce the role of a player who is consistently 20-6-6 which is an extremely difficult feat and increase the role of someone that scores and not much else is a complete joke.

 

Reading all posts in this item,I got a clue,i.e.
All of our players are good and question is how to let everyone in the team play his best in the court especially after Yao' joint.
We'd better use Yao' strength to offense and defense.Cat should know how to adjust himself to the team change,other players also have to learn to fit for the new system if they want championship.So the biggest question is how to find a appropriate coach to give both the players and coach some time to improve.IMO,we can go far instead of playoff spot with present players if we adjust successfully.

 

Just 53 posts and this one already gets it... whats taking everybody else so long.

Congratulations fanwq, you are now my hero...

 

Sorry, that was MManal, not you. I guess I got . I think we will just have to agree to disagree as I don't seem to be swaying you and you certainly have not been swaying me. Heck, maybe there is a GM out there that thinks as much of Mobley as I do, and another that thinks as much of Francis as you seem to, and the Rox can trade both of 'em and be in really great shape.

 

From Blineberry's article in today's Chronicle:

"For Brown, this might be his best chance ever to dabble in high art with a firecracker guard in Steve Francis, another personal favorite in Cuttino Mobley and the ultimate wild card in 7-5 Yao Ming. You can almost picture him in a white lab coat, experimenting over a Bunsen burner.

He might be the perfect match for Mobley, a hard-nosed, thick-skinned type who could benefit from some tough love."


Again, I don't think its a given that Mobley is traded if Brown comes to Houston. And I don't see how you get enough playing time for Mobley off the bench if Steve is your starting SG.

 

Nikestrad and Mmanal, good to see you posting more. DVauthrin, great post back on page 2.

Why are you even bothering to argue with these guys?

If anyone believes Cuttino is better, or more valuable than Steve, then they have already exposed themselves as clueless.

 

I won't tell you that Mobley is a better player than Francis. Athletically, they are somewhat similar, but I'd say that Francis has an obvious...though not huge...edge. Steve gets more rebounds than Mobley….by almost 50%. If you want your shot guard hanging around the basket to help the big men in rebounding, then Mobley isn’t your guy.

Neither one of them is genius of the year. Francis often looked dumber out there, but he’s the guy with the ball most of the time, so he’s got quite a bit more intellectual pressure on him—and more opportunities to look dumb. Mobley had almost three assists per game AS A SHOT GUARD this year, so the whole "black hole" argument is moronic.

Offensively, they are so similar it’s ridiculous. Yes, Steve’s stats are a hair better, but you’d be hard pressed to find a guard—any guard; either better or worse—with more similar stats to Francis than Mobley. I know stats don’t tell the whole story, but they’re pretty telling right here.

Mobley is a better defender….you can “expose” yourself if you want to argue that point.

But this is the point I’m really trying to get across:

We’re talking about the Rockets. They’re a real live NBA team….not the Olympic team of your dreams. If we had Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, and McGrady, and I was given the choice of Mobley or Francis to be point guard, I’d pick Francis. Don’t get me wrong; I’d feel pretty confident with Mobley seeing as he’s damn near a Francis clone, but I’d certainly give the edge to Francis.

But it doesn’t work that way. This is the NBA. We have a salary cap. We have an owner who is luxury tax averse…..as he should be. We only have so many pennies to throw around. We have an excellent player in Francis who counts pretty heavily against the cap, and we have an excellent player in Mobley who is at least 90% of the player that Francis is (I think its closer, but I’ll be conservative for the slower crowd), yet he costs only about 40% of what Francis does against the cap.

Even if Mobley was only 80% of the player Francis is, that would still make him twice as valuable….given the constraints of a salary cap.

This isn’t quantum physics….this is simply math. And the stats are the easiest way to quantify what is obvious to the objective crowd: Francis may be a better player than Mobley….but not by much. Certainly not enough to justify his price tag (given the assumption that the two players are redundant).

I know it will be difficult to trade Francis as he’s a BYC player this year. But it’s also going to be hard to trade Mobley (if you have half a brain) because he’s got such a sweetheart deal for what he brings. Personally, with a new coach, I think the backcourt should be left intact to see what they can do under some different tutelage. In fact, I don’t think I’d do anything with this team except try to sign a decent role playing vet or two.

But if I had to break the backcourt up--and get rid of one of them for another good player, I’d be trying to move Francis.

 

the only reason we would want to trade francis is cuz of the salary cap.... over mobley that is. There's just no way u can rate Mobley ahead of Francis based on what he brings. If the clock's winding down and you need a shot, there's no one else in the team I'd rather have taking the shot. At any rate, I feel that our best chance is to wait for Rice's salary to end and save some cap room. If a trade's to be made, I doubt that it'll involve Francis. Francis/ Yao itself sell its share of tickets so moneywise it does help the Rockets to have Francis.

 

Folks have been asking for changes to the team. A new coach is a mighty big one. We need to get him onboard and let him and the Rockets's organization figure out the player changes. I'ld imagine the starting 5 will be there in the Fall. The bench players are all fair game. As fans, let's focus on which FAs we can bring in to replace those on the bench who just aren't productive.

But once the season begins and 20 or so games have gone by, if some of the starting 5 haven't made the necessary adjustments to get to ball inside to Yao, I think then you'll since some trades.

 

"We talkin' bout PRACTICE." - The Answer AI