I do, but it has to be a mix of personal and team accomplishments. Isn't the goal of basketball or any sports is to win right? Let me do a simple example so you understand....If I say to you, this person is one of the best sales person in this company because he has the most customer contacts, best networks, best sales pitch etc... but at the end his actual $ that he has brought into the company (which is the bottom line) is low then you will really question if he is the best sales person in the company right?
Let me frame this so that you can follow along. Winning championships is a team goal and a team accomplishment not an individual accomplishment. The best player in the world would never get a "ring" if he was on a garbage team his whole career. Would Jordan be a lesser player if the Bulls hadn't won 6 championships? Of course not. Now there might be some ignorant fans that might not realize it, but he'd be every bit as good even if his team never even made the playoffs. Is Sam Jones the second greatest player of all time? Of course not. Being on championship teams is a coincidence more than anything. You judge individual players by their individual performances and it has nothing to do with how the team is doing.
Jordan has never lost in the NBA finals, never disappeared. Also the league was much stronger during Jordan's era. Just look at the Eastern Conference teams today, weak as piss. Lebron plays against the Bad Boy Pistons or Bird Celtics and he wouldn't be the guy he is now. Just compare how much Lebron b****es about calls compared to Jordan.
Do you think Jordan would be regarded as GOAT without those 6 championships? Which means no 6 MVP finals?
By those who know what they are talking about? Of course. You don't become the greatest individual player based on what your team does, you become the greatest individual player based on what YOU do. That's what Kobe fans don't understand. To them it's just a ring count, but the Lakers could win the next 5 championships and Kobe would still never be anywhere near the caliber of player MJ was.
Let me be clear that rings alone won't weigh how great you are. It has to be a mix of everything. I know there are many disillusional Kobe fans out there, and I am not one of them. I'm just telling how it is. When you are weighing who are the greatest players ever, then of course you have to weigh personal achievements as well as team achievements.
I'm a Kobe fan. I like Kobe for the same reason I like Chael Sonnen. Stat's got nothing to do with it. The dude is tough, and played some amazing basketball despite personal and team flaws. Some people think Kobe fans are all r****ds or something. It's insulting, and it hurts.
People saying that Lebron didn't play in the 80's need to STFU.... If he played in the 80's he would have probably mentally tougher.. So imagine this freak of nature with a mean streak..... Even more unstoppable than now IMO
I get what you are saying, what I'm saying is that team accomplishments don't factor in at all, or rather they shouldn't factor in at all when comparing individual players. I don't care if a player was on 20 championship teams or 0, the better player is the better player. It's something that really is obvious if you think about it. The only thing a ring says is that you happened to be on the best team in the league, it means literally nothing else.
by this, im going jordan, lebron, kobe. lebron has a chance to pass jordan if: a) he wins 4 more rings with 4 more finals MVPs, b) at least 1 more regular season mvp, c) continues his point, reb, blk, stl averages and total outputs, and shooting %'s, and d) continues to make all-nba first team defense. not an easy thing to do, but it just means keep it up another 10 years.
Jordan averaged 30+ for 7 straight seasons....... When a player does it today, it's considered rare and amazing.
The current Rockets are a better defensive team than the Bad Boy Pistons, as are about half the teams in the NBA, at least by the numbers. They might be the single most overrated team in history. Defense in the 80's was a joke compared to what it is today.
