I would say he would have probably made the 2008-2010 finals. My reasoning, MJ was the best player of the Golden Era of Basketball and better then LeBron. There was no doubt in my mind that the late 80's to early 90's had more supremely talented players and teams then in the mid to late 2000's. Although Jordan would not have won any championships leading those Cavaliers teams, they would have made 1-3 more NBA Finals. You disagree with this. Now is it because you believe LeBron is better than Jordan or the Cavs sucked so bad that even with a player like Jordan would not have made a difference?
How many players carried pure garbage to rings? I guess MJ should have told management to get rid of Pippen too huh? What a coward MJ was. To let Pippen guard the opposing teams best wing, right? This is your logic right?
This is an easy question to answer... If Kobe's Lakers met Lebron's Heat, would Kobe have lost 4-1? Durant did.
The bottom line is that in order to win a championship or even get to the Finals, LeBron was going to have to get by at least one good team, and in most years, multiple. Yeah, the East sucked but they still had the best defensive team ever in the mid-2000s Pistons, and had their fair share of good teams during LeBron's tenure, such as the Shaq/Wade Heat abnd the big 3 Celtics. All it takes is one team to stop someone from getting a title and, just like MJ and his nemesis Pistons, it wasn't going to happen for LeBron unless he got some help. LeBron took his scrub team to 7 games against the 2008 Celtics, which was the best team in the NBA and had 3 HOFers on it. After that, he took his scrub teammates to the best record in the NBA and the ECF a couple of years in a row. No player has done more with less. Yeah, he never led him to a title but he stuck around for multiple contracts in that hellhole. Any more and he would have been basically penning himself in as the next Dominique Wilkins. You honestly think MJ, Kobe, Durant, etc would have stayed in Cleveland? Heck, there's no guarantee that Durant will even stay that long in OKC, and his team is a hell of a lot better than anything LeBron had back then.
First off, compared to the trash in the east that Cleveland team wasn't totally garbarge per se. Big Z, Drew Gooden, Shannon Brown, Daniel Gibson & Anderson Varejao were not scrubs. That team just lacked star power outside of LBJ. He left Cleveland because he wanted 2 other superstars that would take the pressure off him. Good business move. But it's still something MJ, Magic, Kobe or any other true competitor would do. Just truth
Would MJ have left Chicago or won a ring if they never got Pippen, Grant, Kukoc, Rodman, etc? Lebron left Cleveland to win a ring. It just so happens he had the right friends and the contracts worked out. MJ still had the better supporting cast on all of his championship teams than Lebrone ever did. Put Pippen on those Cavs team and Lebron would have had several rings without ever having to leave.
Hell no. Lebron needs a big 3. Did you see the the way San Antonio backed off him last year? I can't recall at anytime in NBA history has the opposing team BACKED OFF the best player in a finals series and dared him to shoot. No way they win ANY championships without all 3 superstars. LBJ is not the type of guy to lead a team to a ring without 2 other HOF players taking the pressure off him. That's the difference between him & Kobe
If you don't think Pippen can win a ring with Lebron then you're either out of your mind or just purposely trying to talk down Lebron. Does Lebron dominate your thoughts and mind?
I think you're misunderstanding the situation. Guys like Rose and Rondo...other teams gave them space b/c they have weak jumpers. The Spurs gave Lebron space b/c they respected his ability to drive much more than his ability to shoot. He shot 40% from the 3 pt line last year....clearly teams were aware he could hit an open jumper. In game 7 last year, Bosh ended up with 0 pts, 7 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 block, and 2 turnovers. You think his performance was crucial to the Heat's victory? Another difference between Lebron & Kobe is that in order for the Heat to win, Lebron needed to play well. Kobe could play like garbage, and his teammates could still pull out a victory. That's how good they were.
Did you watch the series? He went through stretches where he couldn't hit the side of a barn Maybe not. But he sure did get that offensive rebound off Lebron's brick in game 6. If Bosh doesn't get that rebound, the Heat lose and Lebron goes back to being Wade's sidekick. Your CLEARLY misinformed. There have been PLENTY of times Lebron had below average games in the playoffs and Wade stepped up. I don't recall Gasol or Odom going for 40pts in any playoff games. Must be nice
Look at the facts. He BARELY beat San Antonio last year with Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh & Ray Allen coming off the bench. And your assuming he's capable of doing it with just Scottie Pippen? Lmao. Lebron does dominate, he a great player. But he definitely benefits from having two superstars playing next to him greatly. He's able to take off stretches that other superstar haven't been able too. This why I think KD's a better player at this point. I'd take Prime Kobe over both of them, but KD's not far behind..
The last three years have put all of the annoying Kobe fanbois on suicide watch. Prior to this, they at least had the "King without a ring" argument but now they are so desperate to keep Kobe relevant that they are making up new, arbitrary criteria like "needs two superstars". Funny thing is, Kobe tried to team up with two superstars last year with all of the fanbois prematurely ejaculating over the inevitable dynasty. We all kniw what happened though... he managed to almost brick his way to the lotto and drove one of the superstars out of town. Truth.
I don't really have any interest in the KD vs Kobe vs LeBron vs MJ discussions ... many good points made on all sides But one thing I have seen repeatedly that I just don't get is people saying Kobe won his 5 rings with "Shaq and Gasol in their primes", as if those 2 are even remotely comparable Forget the first 3 with Shaq and let's just focus on the last 2 with Gasol and Bynum ... What exactly has Pau Gasol EVER done to be considered the 'co-best player' on those Lakers teams with Kobe, the way Shaq was (deservedly) on the first teams? This is a legit 7-foot PF who, in 13 years, has done the following: GOOD (mostly as Kobe's Robin during his prime): - 1x Rookie of Year + All-Rookie 1st team (2002) - 4x All-Star (3 from 09-11) - 2x Champion (both with Kobe) BAD (mostly before and after Kobe's prime): - Only 3 1st-round exits in 6 years as Memphis' best player - Only 4 season of 10+RPG, and career avg of 9.2 RPG - Zero 20 & 10 seasons - 2 seasons among top 10 in PER (2007-24.1-8th & 2010-22.9-9th) And for all those about to bring up his excellent passing, defense, etc ... he has never even made the All-NBA Defense 3rd team in 13 years, and never even sniffed an MVP or DPoY award He is a very skilled big man with a nice all-around game, but other than the jump-shot, you are basically describing Joakim Noah ... except Noah is actually keeping his team in the playoffs while his superstar guard is sidelined by injury Hall of Fame?!? You must be kidding ... Just among contemporary PF's (those whose primes overlapped somewhere between 2001-2014), Gasol would do well to finish in the top 5: 1 - Duncan 2 - KG 3 - Dirk 4 - Bosh 5 - Your pick ... KLove, LMA, ADavis He accomplished exactly nothing individually during his first 6.5 years in Memphis, save a ROY trophy, and his team never even won a playoff series Then he gets traded to the Lakers, in a deal that was universally criticized as unfairly 1-sided for the Lakers (thanks Jerry West), which sets up a perfect-case scenario for Pau where he didn't have to be the 2 things he had proven were impossible for him: A - Doesn't have to lead his team, and can comfortably slide into the sidekick role for which he is better-suited (mentally SOFT) B - Doesn't have to play Center, and can comfortably hang out on the perimeter while Bynum bangs down low (physically SOFT) He is a soft, whining, overrated, dirty Euro that desperately needs a razor and a sack of balls ... and he is lucky Kupchak, West, PJ and Kobe conspired to make him even mildly relevant in NBA history Otherwise he is Amare Stoudemire ... an All-Star PF in his prime who, when asked to carry a team, spent his whole career in the lottery, and an afterthought when future generations discuss this era of the NBA Since 2011, as Kobe & Bynum have become less effective due mainly to injuries/age, rather than rise to the challenge by taking his game to another level and keep the Lakers a contender, he has regressed back to his Memphis days, and the Lakers have become a joke and top contender to tank How does a future HoFamer, still only 33, let this happen to his team? As a convenient comparison, over the same past 2 seasons, Durant has lost Harden and Westbrook as teammates, yet his team is comfortably in the lead for home court throughout the playoffs Hell, even Dirk still has the Mavs in the playoffs ... Gasol is just as irrelevant now as he was 2001-2007 The fact Kobe won 2 rings with him and Bynum as his 'co-stars' IMO sealed Kobe's legacy as an all-time great Bynum has already become an afterthought, and Gasol is has regressed to the same afterthought form he showed for almost 7 years in Memphis before he met Kobe and Phil
And he also went through stretches where he kept hitting open jumpers, especially in game 7. You said that Lebron needed both superstars (Bosh/Wade) to win a title. In game 6, Bosh shot 5-12 for 10 pts, 11 rebounds, 2 assists, 3 steals, and 2 blocks. Wade shot 6-15 for 14 pts, 4 rebounds, 4 assists, and 2 blocks. Were either of those "superstar" performances? You're probably right, but how about providing a few examples? Kobe's teammates have been good enough to win despite his poor play. Look at the 2010 finals. In the Lakers' 4 wins against Boston, Kobe shot about 37% from the field. Horrible. Yet they won the title. Having the best front court in the league is quite a luxury.
Everything you said about Gasol could be applied to pre-Heat Bosh, who no one doubts is part of the "big 3". And actually Gasol did pretty well to take a Memphis team with no other all stars to 50 wins. All this shows is that players need help to win. For his first three titles, Kobe had the best player in the NBA by his side, a guy worth more than any two other players in the league (so Kobe was obviously the help here). For his next two, Kobe had the best frontcourt in the league by far. LeBron didn't win until he got two great teammates. Durant couldn't win last year with no great teammates, and if Westbrook isn't healthy he won't win this year either (regular season records be damned.. He is pulling a Clevelnad LBJ this year).
To be fair, the Celtics had a great frontcourt of Garnett/Perkins/Pierce, but Gasol/Bynum/Odom was more effective.
Some of these posters are too much, I am trying to figure out how Kobe had an underwhelming supporting case with the best group of front court players in the league. Could you imagine how deadly Durant could be with great post players, like Shaq or Bynum/Gasol/Odom combo?
