Atheist: If your children believe in God, does it not effect you?

As Phreak3 already alluded to..

What if believers are right, and Allah shows himself as the one true god? What would all non-Muslims say about why they didn't believe? Will they cry that there wasn't enough physical evidence to warrant a belief in it? Will they cry that their parents lead them down the wrong path or some random stranger sold them some on a false religion with words, and thus they didn't have equal opportunities in life to find this peace others found in Allah? What will they say Allah could've done to have prevented their eternal damnation?

Trust me, knowing at that time an eternal lake of fire awaits them they will kick, scream, and plead to an extent in which not even you can comprehend at this moment. But it will be too late... if believers are right.

 

I plan on teaching my future children HOW to think and not WHAT to think.

That is the difference between the average Christian and me.

 

I wasn't making a joke. I am 100% serious.

 

Haymitch summed it up with the first response.

But, I appreciate the notion that atheists are the ones that need to start exercising their minds, as if 100% of the atheists in the US were raised to be atheists and it is their default stance.

 

if God created all then am i not made in his vision? i'm an athiest because that is how he saw fit to create me.

 

that is not how god works. he is mysterious... with great floods and vengeful angels.

 

the whole premise of this thread is that God is a Christian God.

 

I was fine with your post until this mess. Why does being a Christian mean you'll "treat your wife a little better, your family a little better, your neighbor a little better"? It doesn't. Why does not believing mean you won't think twice about doing things that are wrong? It doesn't. Religion does not have a monopoly on morality.

In fact, I'd wager that religion helps people do bad things. Would those guys have flown planes into the World Trade Center if they didn't believe they had a bunch of virgins waiting for them? How many criminals commit crimes thinking that "God forgives"? As an atheist, the consequences of your actions aren't supernatural -- they're real. You know that if you do this awful thing, you will face immediate consequences by society, not have a cushiony fall-back in the eternal.

But I won't make that wager, because that would be generalizing and doing the same exact thing you're doing.

 

This is the problem with many of these discussions. It is one set of doctrinal practices treated as THE understanding of life and the universe.

And what kind of God creates billions of people then purposefully obfuscates It's own existence, making especially sure not to do the obvious thing like appear or speak to the masses or demonstrate It's presence, while dooming to eternity all who do not believe in It or who happen to believe in one of the alternative ideas about It? Is an eternity of damnation really an appropriate punishment for about 90 years of earthly activity, good or bad? If this God is all-knowing and all-powerful, why purposefully create life that is doomed to damnation? Sounds like a sadistic, dick move to me.

 

No, it does not bother me. But you can imagine what the conversation might be between him and I. That said, if he believes, good for him, nothing wrong with that.

 

If my son believes that, and be straight in life, why not? For me, that stuff is just not going to work.

 

TXStake, you seem to be starting on the assumption that the atheists haven't given the question earnest thought and earnest study and a willingness to consider. Which is the same thing that atheists think of Christians. Probably people aren't giving each other enough credit.

We're a PCA household. By our reading, man is dead in his sin and doesn't have it in him to alter his path. In that line of reasoning, I'll become a christian when the holy spirit makes me one. The baptists hate that sort of thinking, like its a theological laziness on my part, or maybe an evangelical laziness on my wife's part. But, I doubt that's true Biblically or from what I know of human behavior. I know more than enough about the religion -- more than most people required to convert -- and have not converted. There's nothing that could be taught or said that hasn't already been taught or said in my 15+ years in the church. If I convert somewhere between now and my death, it's either the work of the holy spirit, or the degradation of my brain. Other people, even wives and children, can only influence you so far.

 

Are we really making the comparison of God to an electric neon octopus in the sky?

 

Is this really true? I get that "middle way" is your thing, but do atheists really think Christians haven't given thought to the idea that their children might not believe in God? Much of the religious system that directly addresses teaching children the way they should go so they do not depart from it when they are older.

Most atheists I have encountered, and pretty much every atheist writer -- led by in modern times by Dawkins, seriously consider faith as it relates to children and especially as it relates to the children of religious parents. For many atheists in religious societies, the question TXStake raised is central to the idea of "coming out" to friends and relatives.

I strongly disagree with the "middle way" approach on this one. I don't know if TXStake's ideas about if atheists have thought the question over are representative of Christians but I know your blanket statement that atheists think the same way isn't. Perhaps if you said "some atheists" it would be more palatable.... I don't buy there is equivalence on this one.

 

*affect

 

http://www.philosophyofreligion.info/theistic-proofs/pascals-wager/

A link for OP. It's worth reading into it if you're unfamiliar, as this is not uncommon in conversations between atheists and theists.

 

Maybe as a (professed) Christian myself, I can offer a little bit of a different perspective than you, sir (or ma'am).

First, I’ll mention that I’m an African-American male. I feel like I have to mention that because, as irrelevant as it may seem to some, much of America’s history has come from a desire to pick and choose what best serves its own interests and ally those sentiments with Biblical canon.

Things are, oddly enough, not so very different in other countries and nations across the world regarding this dynamic. I’ve often wondered, myself, what possible point there is to being a Christian in a place where that belief (if it is against the codified, accepted and endorsed national standard) is akin to a death sentence.

We have the great privilege, in the greatest ongoing social experiment in human history, to live our lives as fully as we are able, and have the fate of our “souls” remain a private and intimate matter.

We have that privilege not through divine providence. We have that through a rational, tangible, and tenable connection to each other that, for as long as there has been a “civilization”, religion and belief has done its best to undermine, if not outright destroy.

Jesus of Nazareth, in his time on this earth, understood this better than any of his contemporaries seemed to, if it is expected to take anything attributed to him in the New Testament Gospels literally.

Jesus spoke of hell (or damnation) often, so it’s not a surprise, in a cursory analysis, that there are many people who would see this as confirmation of an afterlife. Jesus reportedly acknowledged at his death to one of the men condemned at his side that even in that hour, he would join him in paradise.
Jesus (whether anyone believes he was “God” or not) believed in heaven and hell.

Personally, I would have expected no less from him. He was born, raised, and died as a devout Jew. Bound in ways to the faith of Judaism that went largely unchanged for many centuries before his life. The Torah taught about heaven and hell. About judgement and separation from God for disbelievers. It makes absolutely perfect sense that, raised to adhere to a faith with such a long and tenured position in his society, Jesus would teach to his fellows from moors that they could at least recognize, if not totally understand, given that his perspective on Judaic law was somehow radically different than that of his countrymen.

As a young man, I had terrible difficulty believing in God. I certainly didn’t think he gave a damn about me or my mother or my younger brother. My mother is steadfastly faithful in her Christian belief. She tried to bring my brother and me up along those lines as best she could. But one thing she said to me that I remember still, about the relationship between “God” and “man” is this:

“…Boy, one thing you ought to know about God…he ain’t from nowhere around here. He ain’t from around the corner. He ain’t from across the street. He ain’t Man. He’s God. And he’s God all by himself. You don’t need to worry about God’s business. You ain’t got a whole lot of time to tend to your own.”​

That sentiment didn’t stick with me until I actually took the time to reflect on one of the most poignant dissertations that Jesus offered to his disciples. By the time he asked this question of them, Jesus had already crafted a fairly sizable reputation among people. And for the layman, Jesus was already afforded a traditional title that people could identify with, according to their understanding of God through their Judaic laws.

Jesus asked his disciples what people were saying about him ―who they thought he was and such. Jesus asked them who they thought he was to THEM – individually – apart from any other argument or supposition offered. He wanted to know what they thought.

The nature of “God”, for me, is based on the aspect of human beings “discovering” things about themselves―the lives they lead, the lives others lead―their feelings toward one another.

Jesus revealed that the experience or nature of “God” is a personal one. A diverse one. And a consecrated one.

It will mean different things to different people. And every meaning is valid and has its place.

Jesus often complimented those whom his Jewish countrymen saw as “pagan” or “unbelievers” when their “faith” in him, or their wisdom in their dealings with one another and with him rather, revealed itself. Matthew 8: 4-6 (the faith of the Roman centurion) is what I’m recalling.

Jesus often said that the only way to the “Father” (God) was through him. It’s hard not to take that literally, I suppose. Especially for the type of person that thinks that God needs to be defended somehow. But I don’t think it is literal in the sense we may be accustomed.

None of us can “know” God except though a personal experience. And a personal experience with one another. There are many people who do not believe as a “Christian” believes, but exemplify the spirit in which Jesus said and behaved in ways many practicing, bonafide “born-again” Christians can’t even acknowledge.

I have seen “God” in the best of people and the worst of people. In the whitest of white folk and the blackest of black folk. I’ve seen “evil” in places where I would not believe it to exist, and kindness in places long since forsaken by men.

I’ve learned what Jesus seemed particularly intent on teaching, and that is not to focus on what you’ve found in this life. But to truly understand what it is you’re looking for.

I would warn, my friend, against determining the end from the beginning for any human being, if as Christians we are indeed charged with no condemnation. If you seem to long and worry for a man’s soul (a soul you categorically could do nothing to “save” or condemn) to such travail, then I might simply suggest that you focus on living your life as best as you are able, especially toward your fellow man. And look for the people that are doing the same thing.

All roads, it’s been said, lead to Rome. I believe that a person who is diligently seeking to live his/her life free from malice and strife and greed and envy and all of the ills our human condition (in our self-awareness) set upon us, will ultimately find whatever they are looking for.

The greatest “sin”, to me, is not what man chooses to call “God”.
It is that man chooses not to call on “God” at all…

 

One, the middle way ain't my thing. I'm big on people understanding one another, seeing the other point of view, etc etc, but I'm usually firmly on one side or the other. But, I think I miscommunicated here anyway -- I wasn't talking about raising children but about considering religion for oneself. And, I was remarking on the vibe I get from TexasStake that he thinks atheists go about their lives never once troubling to think deeply or sincerely about the claims of Christianity. It seems like the genesis of this thread was, 'well what if a close loved one became a believer, wouldn't that make you finally really think about it?' And, I'm saying people have thought about it already, have already made conclusions, and influence from loved ones probably won't be the significant new evidence you need to re-open the case.

As for the converse I mentioned, atheists have a similar prejudice and assume Christians have adopted the religion they were born to without thinking deeply about the claims of the religion or, for that matter, the arguments for atheism. In that, I think there is an equivalency, because I see this sort of prejudice all over the place -- bbs, church, friends, everywhere.