[ClutchFans] The numbers are clear: Patrick Beverley deserves to start over Jeremy Lin

Can be found about halfway down the page here:
http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.html?PlayerID=202391&MeasureType=Advanced&PerMode=PerGame

 

I don't think we care if hes coming off the bench. I personally am a bit upset because hes being yanked and marginalized to the point hes not contributing. Most of this is on Lin but if you think the coaches don't have a hand in that then your opinion differs from mine.

Think back a few games when Sampson wasn't around and Lin was allowed to play PG. He flourished. It hasn't even been that long a period of time from then to now. Even Clutch mentioned it was the best game Lin played. The system matters, and for a player like Lin who is more a specialist than a bona fide star it becomes even more an issue.

Finally, we should care because:

PBev 30 minutes or more - 10-11
Lin 30 minutes or more - 16-6

I know you guys are going to say I am cherry picking the stats. But I think what this indicates is that with Lin on the floor more you have a better chance of winning. Between Lin and Bev who do you think has a higher likelihood of dominating a game and helping us get a win?

 

Interesting. I used Basketball Reference btw.

Regardless, you can see basically identical statlines for Lin in both situations. So again, I ask, did 82 games of starting last year made Lin a better starter? Apparently not. At the very least, his performance is not affected by his starting status.

SO WHY DO PEOPLE CARE?

 

Then start a "Lin needs to suck it up and not play liked a scared p****y" thread instead of keep trying to blame other people.

 

Players' stats are reflections of their abilities as well as the way team is playing. The greater issue here is we are not playing the right way, and we are not using our players the right way, not just PG

 

I agree with the bolded part. Although the person I quoted does not match the criteria of your bolded statement.

 

Clutch, first, thank you for a good article to read. But a little work has to be done before you can the conclusion is statistically sound - have you checked how the result shown in your article would vary if you randomly picked a subset of games? I wrote a post a few days ago in response to a post that was essentially doing a similar analysis as yours. There I pointed out that the variance around the numbers are so huge that the difference shown in the averages actually might be a random noise.

I am not saying that your conclusion has similar issues but i am saying that without giving an error bar on the numbers, it is not convincing argument.

I know it is a tall order. If you point the way of getting the raw data you used, that could be helpful too. Thanks.

 

So basically you blame AB's troubles due to AB not being good. But you blame Lin's troubles to circumstances besides Lin. What's the difference? Make it clear why you believe AB is "who he is"(previous post) but that Lin is not succeeding because of how he's used?

Are you implying that McHale uses Brook correctly but Lin incorrectly? If so, tell us how he's doing so.

 

Lol. And its not relevant to this thread why? I'm not going to clutter the GARM when there is a thread here I can use.

But of course, feel free to focus on one part of the post and draw narratives that suit your agenda.

My point is the situation is what it is and to put the blame squarely on Lin's shoulders by telling him to man up or suck it up is naive. Things are rarely so simple.

 

What test are you using??? I am a little bit puzzled why you are using chi square

 

To be fair, his role was much different as a starter last year compared to when he has started this year. Not trying to defend that he's not playing well right now - that's obvious for all to see - just putting that out there.

 

I am really not sure what your beef is. If you want to discount whatever I am saying because I am a Lin fan more power to you.

AB has defensive issues. You know this. Its not due to skill I think but mostly due to size.

My opinion, and I stress this is my opinion, is that Lin can be the answer, but only if hes used properly. He was doing okay last year wasn't he? Or were you watching at all last year? According to Morey he contributed 3rd most wins to the team last year. Suddenly hes a scrub?

You can disagree and feel free to state your points, but simply saying you are an LOF therefore your opinion doesn't matter is asinine. Like the poster earlier said, get off your high horse.

 

I think Lin coming off the bench is good.

However...I don't think Bev should start. Let's face it, for all his running around Bev isn't stopping anyone nowadays. In the last three games every opposing point guard he's guarded has (at worst) scored their average. Today Bev played over 30 minutes and had 0 assists. Yeah, you think you're starting lineup is going to lack ball movement if the starting PF keeps laying goose eggs when it comes to assists??? The only reason Bev hits his threes is because they are wide open. Lin and Brooks usually have a hand in their face, by comparison.

Start Brooks. Lin off the bench. Bev comes in as a defensive specialist to guard Chris Paul and the likes. I don't need Bev to come in to play 40 minutes of defense on Sean Livingston or Kirk Hinrich, that's a waste of a position.

 

Emm... I do not think we need these LOF and hater posts any more. Please stop and do not embarrass yourself again.

 

Trying to discredit another poster by attacking his command of English? That's lame.

By the way,

(I) could(n't) care less.
Inf. It doesn't matter to me. (The less bears the heaviest stress in both versions. Despite the apparent contradiction, either reading of this—both the affirmative and negative—usually have the same meaning. The exception would be in a sentence where the could bears the heaviest stress: I COULD care less, [but I don't.].) Tom: The rain is coming! The carpet will get wet! Mary: I couldn't care less. Bill: I'm going to go in there and tell off the boss? John: I could care less.
See also: care, could, less
could(n't) care less

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/could+care+less

 

We didnt have Dwight last year. We do have him this year.

Last year, Harden was the only one in the starting lineup that had to get his touches. Rockets could afford to let Lin have his touches while him being in the starting lineup.

This year, both Howard and Harden are going to need their touches. Lin is not good enough for coaches to take away Harden and Howard's touches and give them to Lin.

Which is why it makes even more sense for him to come off the bench. He needs the ball in his hands to be effective and with the starting lineup he wont have it as much.

 

You play a person to their strengths. Brooks is used correctly b/c we bring him in when we need instant offense and the rest of our team can't shoot. If McHale were to bring AB in to play as the defensive stopper to Chris Paul or Steph Curry or John Wall, it wouldn't work and everyone could easily see why.

Lin's strengths lie in his ability to push the tempo, get good ball movement, making assists etc. But when you tell him to play shooting guard you take away all of that.

That's how McHale is doing it.

 

I'm good with him off the bench - I just wonder why if this: 'He needs the ball in his hands to be effective' is true, why does he not have the ball in his hands when playing off the bench. I see maybe a 1-2 minute stretch on some nights lately where he is actually playing the point - sometimes no time at all playing point. With McHale's rotations, there doesn't seem to be ANY space of time where he can be in his best position to succeed.

 

We've lost respect for a lot of posters ever since Yao and Lin showed up on the team. Weird huh?

 

Lin has to have the ball in his hands to do his thing (drive for layup, pass of the dribble etc.). He has the freedom to do that. No one is telling him not to do it in the game. We dont even have many sets, if any, so I dont see how he is shackled by them. When Lin is aggressive and pushes the issue he does it successfully. For whatever reason, he reverts back to his timid self and becomes a non-factor.

Do you think the coaches ask Lin to play timidly and inconsistently?

Lin is not going to gain his coaching staff's trust if he is going to be timid and inconsistent. And then also there are his lingering issues with turnovers and carelessness with the ball.

Clearly Lin is more talented than Beverley on offense but with Beverely you know exactly what you are going to get each game. He is going to be aggressive even if its the last minutes of a blow out game. He is always going to be a pest. And he is always going to hustle. Coaches love consistency.

We all know Beverely is a limited player but he is doing ok within his limited role. Given Lin's skillset, his role on the team is different and is coming up short.