Like many here I see our back court duo as being to similar in many respects. Both are penetrators, shooters, young, and error prone. Too much Ying and not enough Yang. Though both clearly have talent. I am substantially in the camp of move Steve to the two, ala Iverson, and bring in a "pure" point guard. However, a major stumbling block is the defense. Andre Miller, for example, fits the pure description, but a Miller Francis back court would be assumed to have defensive liabilities. (That was the most polite thing I have ever said). I am also in the camp of no dramatic changes. We have a lot of young talent, let them grow together. Change for change sake is almost always bad in the long run. Yes we want to see progress, but I don't think five years is an unrealistic time to put a team together. As a group this team has had zero years of being together. Some player combos have been here a bit, but in the last five years we have gone from veteran driven, to back court isos, to "everything must go through Yao". I was discussing this with a friend and he suggested Cat move to the point, and Steve moves to the two. Catino played the point for us his rookie year. On defense they stay in their old positions. Steve guards the point and Cat the off. I didn't really have an answer for my friend. I have an uneasy sense that it will end up being more of the same. On the other hand it does address some problems and allows for continuity. I guess a critical question is will Cat play a more "responsible" game at the one than the two. Maybe he jacks up shots because he thinks that is the role of the shooting guard. As a passing guard, will he jack up passes? HE seemed to take instruction to focus on defense pretty well. I remember his rookie year, but I don't remember the specifics of his play. Well except for Shaq stuffing his last second shot in the playoffs and everybody in my living room saying "what’s he doing with the ball?" Who remembers Catino as a point guard? What do you think? I'm interested in hearing your comments.
Well.....I am interested in hearing how he did as point guard too. But still......would rather trade him away. Unless he was good as a point guard. He really didn't have to do much...just feed people.
The Cat/Francis duo have had FOUR years together and it has produced ZERO. Its time for major changes, we must get out of this rut of too many Guards that score first and pass last. Our roster is a mish mash of individual players that DONT play Team Basketball. This is a Team Game and we need more players willing to give of themselves to the good of the team.
Well that was what they were supposed to do. Coach told them to ISO. For 4 years. Bad habits. Brent Barry would be great.
I don't know about that. They've given us lots of stylin' and profilin' Sportcenter highlights. That's what it's all about, right?
Cuttino played well for us in his rookie year as a point, not statiscally but played a similar to Fisher, where is was taking charge and stealing the ball, playing good D. Your point make sense, if CAt plays the point for the Rockets on the offensive end while Steve doing his thing at the two. It will be a tough match up for opponents.
How many of those years have they had adequate help? I'm sure most of the board doesn't remember Mobley as a point, since they either showed up after the Francis acquisition, or the drafting of Ming. I believe Mobley has always pretty much done what he's been told. As a rookie, he would run the offense, and shoot the open shot when he had it. In fact, Barkley/Pippen/Hakeem used to get on him about not shooting ENOUGH. The Kenny Smith/Vernon Maxwell backcourt was actually pretty similar as well. Kenny turned into more of a spot-up shooter when the Rockets got good. His assists went down and his 3-pointers went up. I don't see any reason why Mobley can't change his role if asked to as well.
While I am very open to breaking up the Cat-Francis tandem and other moves, Freak has a major point here. 4 years ago Francis was a rookie and our front line consistent of an aged Hakeem. 3 & 2 years ago we had flat the worst frontcourts in the league--no backcourt in the league could have lead those teams to the playoffs. In my mind last year was the only true failure year for Francis and Mobley. The frontline was pretty healthy and everybody knows the best rookie in the league arrived to play center. So really it is only last year I think they can be credited with failing badly--and I am leaning on breaking them up but by no means is it obvious it needs to happen versus other team changes (coaches, defense in the 4 spot).
I'll keep talking about it. If the offense started differently or was more passing and less dribbling, Mobley and Francis in the backcourt would be fine. I fear that as long as Rudy is here, it will remain the same though. I do remember Cat playing pg his rookie yr. He played ok and I thought he really had a future their until they traded for Francis.
i've thought about this before, cat being the point. i don't see anything inherently wrong with it as cat has usually played the role designated to him very well. be the pg, ok. be the sixth man quick offense, ok. be our starting sg, ok. be the man when steve is out, ok. start blending into the offense more and play more d now that yao is here, ok. he pretty much does whatever his role is. my thought has always been we don't need a great point, one that breaks D's down all the time with his penetration or has great court vision. just a D Fisher type that can bring it up, throw it into shaq (or yao for us), hand it to kobe if need be (steve for us) and then float around the 3 point line draining 3's off of kickouts. i mean that was cuttino's main role in the offense by season's end (starting around the all star break) wasn't it. a lot of his shots were open 3's from passes. it wouldn't be any different here, and we wouldn't have to worry about getting a point who knows how to shoot to spread the floor, b/c cuttino can shoot. as far as D goes, since we're all about moving steve to the 2 and possibly guarding 2's anyway, let him guard the two's and let cat guard the point. he's quicker than steve and thus would probably do a better job of staying in front of points (although our pnr strategy is still the reason the guards get killed so much, b/c our big men are not instructed to show or trap the other teams guard off the pick) while steve probably wouldn't get as burned by 2's. either way, mobley will be the defensive strength of the two, francis will not. maybe we could just have mobley guard whichever of the 1 or 2 is the bigger offensive threat, i don't see anything wrong with that. so basically, keep mobes b/c i like him, and let him play point if we want.
Wasn't that the case this year? In a lot of games this year Cuttino Mobley was the one who brought the ball upcourt.
Point well taken DJ. However, though he brought up the ball, I never really thought of Mobley as running the offense. He was simply a two guard who could dribble. When he got into the forcout his game was a two guard with the ball. My question has to do with what if he really changed his role. Spots and leopards may come up here, but what if he really tried to distribute the ball first, go to the hoop if not guarded, and play outside waiting for the return pass for the open J. Could it happen? Would it work if it did? And once again, how are his point guard skills. What I remember was Dickerson being the better of the two rookie guards. I remember being pretty happy with both - though they were inconsistant rookies and a major factor to being bumped out of the play offs so fast. I also reemmber Rudy saying something like "if you liked him as a point guard, wait till you see him as a two, his natural position."
Yetti I feel that we have had major changes every year. Desert Scar and TheFreak said it pretty well. Four years ago Francis was brand new and playing with a vetran dominated front line. Years two and three we had flat (see Desert Scar's post) and last year we change to get Yao 30 touches a game. Up from Cato's 2. Those are major changes. By the way, I really agree with the rest of your post. mish mash, individual, DONT play Team, is a team game, and willing to give of themselves, are all accurate in my opinion. I guess where we differ is I think we may grow into that. Gary Player was not considered the ultiamte team player after four years. Jason Kidd, the team player of the decade, was a bickering cancer when he was with Dallas. Pretty much all 19 year olds change over the next five to ten years. I say give this team a few more years. It could be a mistake, but I am willing to find out.
If, and this is a big "IF", Mobley altered his role to be a defensive stopper, I could see him stay a while; however, I don't think there is any chance of that. Besides, he would have to learn how to develop a 3 point shot. That is something that could take ages. He would also have to learn how to pass the ball. Wouldn't it be just easier to trade him for someone who already knows how to shoot, pass, and play defense? Mobley's nature is to take it to the hole and have the ball in his hands. On another team Mr. Mobley may be valued more for his aggressive selfish play. The point is, championship teams need certain pieces. 1. All Stars - usually 2 2. 3 - 3 point sharp shooters on the floor at all times 3. Smart point guard who knows how to pass the ball and not turn over the ball 3. Defensive Stopper 4. Energy Guy 5. Rebounder What i'm trying to get at is, Mobley doesn't fit any of these areas. Sure Mobley plays with passion but not the kind of intensity that a Bo Outlaw brings you or a Bobby Jackson bring every night.
As a rookie the way for Mobley to run the offense was to throw the ball to Barkley or Dream in the post. I don't remember the Big Three talking about Mobley not shooting enough. Pippen did say the team had some rare young talent though. Mobley was a shooting guard in college, he played the point because that system needed a good 3 point shooter at the 1, and Dickerson was a good 2, not because Mobley was a good point. In fact, Barkley once called out Mobley on TV, said Mobes "can't see people" in transition, and Mobley reponded by murmuring something along the line of "well I can get better". Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall Mobley driving past any opposing point guard in his rookie year either. Mobley started to drive past shooting guards in year two. What I'm saying is, Cat wasn't a penetrator and distributor, but a three point shooter and entry pass maker in his rookie year. So if changing his role means to play him at the 1, it would send chills down my spine.
Mobley has never avg. under 35% on his 3 point shooting which is respectable. People never mention on of Cats biggest assests is his abilty to get to the freethrow line and nock them down. He is one of the few guards that can spot up and get to the line. We do not want to go back to the drop it in the lowpost and stand around offense bc Yao is not that good yet. Cat can play D and is clutch. I like the back court but I do wish they could learn to use their picks better and get more motion off the ball.
