To Chinese or anyone who knows about China's views about America

Lil,

I have a job to do, so wouldn't argue with anyone point to point on Internet even though it would be very convinent for me to quote a couple paragraphs directly from "Ming History" in its original Chinese[\B] to counter your quotes. But if you think you can summarize a dynasty which crossed several hundred years in a couple paragraphs, more power to you. I am a researcher myself, that is not the way I do research.


Shrimpie

 

first things first...
robbie, I sincerely apologize for what Im about to do...but I cannot allow Panda's misguided attempts to blame the US for AIDS to go un-challenged..

Panda,
OK, let me get this straight. You are arguing that because that the first *reported* case of a disease *called* AIDS was in America, then that is where it started? Pretty lame reasoning.

let me clarify the issue..HIV is the human immunodeficiency virus that causes AIDS..that has been well established...

then notice the first line of this Avert report..

and then reports detailing the source of HIV that directly lead to AIDS.

There are several more reports I can quote if necessary, but for you to be saying that just because AIDS as a disease was first identified in the US, that AIDS comes from the US is specious reasoning at it's best...

From my research, it is clear that HIV causes AIDS, HIV was first noted in Africa, and it is closely tied to SIV(simian immunodeficiency virus) which is a disease of African monkeys.

you will note in the above quoted reports that the reason that it was not noted in medical literature before it was noted in the US and Europe was because of the state of healthcare in the African continent.
After it was discovered by French and US epidemiologists, further research to trace HIV's roots led to discoveries that it had existed as far back as the above noted plasma sample from 1959 in Zaire.

 

One - You are actually 100 times more likely to die from car accidents in the U.S. than SARS from China, just look below.

http://www.who.int/csr/sarsarchive/2003_04_30/en/

So we can set the # of deaths around 159 according to WHO

From caraccidents.com estimated 41,000 ppl die/ year due to car accidents. Out of a population of 280,000,000 (from cia.gov world fact book) that's .0014% of the population per year. Divide that by 356 days/ year that's .0000004% chance you are going to die from car accidents at any given day day.

Now lets assume SARs spread through China for about a month,
159 in a country of 1.3 billion, that's .000000122% per month. divide that number by 30 days/ month we get .000000004% chance you are gonna die in China due to SARS on any give day. In reality SARS has been around a tad longer than a month so we can assume the percantage to be even lower.

So we see that you are 100 times more likely to die from car accidents in the US than to die from SARS in China.


SECOND

AIDS did start in Africa, it's actually pretty much common knowledge. It might've gotten more awareness and discovery in America, but that's a good thing as it curbs the spreading of the diesease, especially with increased education. I think the same amount of education in should be needed else where, including China. I remember having a conversation with one of my cousins, we were joking about prostitutes and stuff, typical stupid teenage guys conversation, but I was shocked when I said something close to "you better double bag it, don't want AIDS" and he said very seriously something along the lines of "nah, we don't get it in China, the worst that can happen here is a rash or something." This is the same kind of stupidity that allowed AIDS to spread in the U.S. in the first place, arguments like only "gays get it" and stupid crap like that. The sad thing is I still don't see the awareness gone up that much concerning AIDs in China. But don't worry too much about SARS, it's a fad that'll pass like Pokemon.

In conclusion, children, break it up or you're grounded for a month

 

Your ass dictates your brain.



michecon

 

I'm not sure on this, but the mortality rate from it is around 3% so while dangerous, its not as bad as it sounds and typically should be people with poor health that suffers from it.

I also wish Michecon would clarify what he said

 

The last number I saw was arounder 6% with expectations of it climbing.

<a HREF="http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/04/27/1051381836104.html">SARS death rate doubles: expert April 27 2003</a>

Could you give a source for your 3% number?

 

That was EASY's post in the Rockets action/moves board. I assumed it to be right, obviously it wasn't. If you go to the link I earlier provided and took the total number of death's divided by total cases, it shouuld be around 6% as you said. However, I still don't think it's that dangerous, look at the car accident comparison.

I also think since that 94% of the people infected are able to beat it, it's a high probabillity that people who die are one the combination of being weak, old, or late discovery of the illness.

However once again, this really is deviating from the topic.

 

Rockets2k:

So far what I've seen is circumstantial evidence. "It's widely accepted..." or "it's possible that AIDS went unnoticed in Africa for the low level of healthcare" are not facts etched in stone.

My question is, HIV has classes and subspecies, so far I haven't encountered any conclusion that says definitely the HIV discovered in Africa is exactly the same as the HIV that caused the epidemic in USA, is there a chance for HIV development in USA through white young gay men's activities? What I've seen in internet literature instead, is that HIV originated in Africa, without noticing the possibility of its change during its spreading.

If samples of HIV that can cause AIDS were found in Africa in 1959, wouldn't it cause widespread AIDS epedemic in Africa? and if so, why does such widespread AIDS epedemic goes unnoticed in Africa, and it was indentified as late as in 1981 in USA from LOCAL cases? The poor local healthcare in Africa is not the answer. I belive organizations such as WHO and medical institutions from various countries would keep a keen eye on epidemic in Africa.

In order to answer this question, you can prove that there was AIDS cases in Africa before 1981, or give me medical records that says the HIV found in that 1981 cases is exactly the same as the HIV samples found in Africa in 1959.

 

Panda, the following quote kind of makes me worried about your knowledge of AIDs.

That's the kind of things said about AIDs when it first started spreading, until people realize that wasn't the case and everyone panicked. Do you even know how AIDs kills? It basically slowly destroys the body's defense system, but AIDs by it self doesn't usually kill. Typically your body's defense system gets bad enough where a common cold would kill you since you can't recover. It's usually a slow death and some times you can live for a long time with AIDs if you're lucky.

Even in United States at first, people who contractd AIDs died with out people knowing the exact cause. Since it was usually the other diseases that caused the death. It wasn't until more knowledge was gained about the disease that the death resulted from AIDs was blamed on AIDs. Now think in Africa, where the life expectancy was much lower, much worse health system, and if some one dies of a common code or something, there wouldn't be a big uproar or anything because things like that are more common than it should be. It wasn't until people in the U.S. begin to realize that typically easily cured illness are now causing deaths when AIDs really begin to come to the forefrong.

While I don't refute that AIDs mutates, any one who took high school biology can tell you that, it doesn't neccessary mean that AIDs didn't mutate while in Africa too.

As for proof, just type history of AIDs in googles or something, there should be plenty of literature on it.

 

wizkid got to it before I could...he is totally right..

as for your etched in stone comment...
Unfortunately, even the CDC or the WHO can't give us that certainty that you seem to require..all they can do is tell us what the most likely place of origin is..

as for the spread in Africa...look first at the living conditions and culture..

In the African jungle, the tribes that live there are spread apart and do not for the most part intermingle..and the health care system is virtually non-existent. When people in the remote areas of the jungle die, there are no immuniologists around to figure out why...they bury them and move on..

You will notice from this quote...

that it was documented to have happened prior to the first documented case in the US in 1981.

the reason why it spread so quickly here was because of the widespread promiscuos sexual practices in the "civilized" world..add that to the higher density in population inthe US and Europe...and waa-laaa.. you have an epidemic.

tell ya what...I have provided reliable documentation about my view....
where is yours to back up your insistance that we(Americans) invented AIDS? So far the only argument I see you trying to use is that the HIV strain that is so genetically similar to African monkey SIV is not what causes AIDS...and if you truely believe that HIV doesn't cause AIDS...I feel for ya...I really do...the facts are known..you just don't want to believe them.

 

Everyone, I want to say:
China used to be power
It will be more stronger in the future!

To tell the truth, most of the yong people do not like american very much, especially Japan, if they have any chance, they say, they want to have a slaughter in Tokyo & fk their girls.

the government? I do not know.

 

Completely ignoring the "origin of AIDS" argument, this is a poor comparison. AIDS is contracted in very specific, intimate ways. SARS is infectious and carries through the air. Thus, AIDS would have never been the same type of problem and require the banning of travel somewhere or quarantine.

 

I want to fk their girls too, epsecially in a school uniform.......um what bbs is this?

In truth yes some of the stuff that is going around in China is pretty disturbing, honestly the undercurrent of hate is way too high. I still don't think those young people would risk their way of life for something like pay back like the Nanjing Slaughter (once again I stress how undercovered something like this is in US history classes).

There is a huge nationalism movement in China right now, along with that carries some resentment for foreingners, but as mentioned above, people like American culture and hopefully both sides will share what they have in common and come together, right now, over me.