Either start Lin, or bring in a new starting PG, Bev ain't cuttin' it.

The reality is with Harden playing with the way he is playing, this team won't be any different than Nuggets when Melo was getting his and the team was exiting the playoffs.

But hey, enjoy the show. Me? I have seen it before.

 

Bev's only value is if he plays against an all-star point guard. If not, he's worthless. Last night against George Hill, Bev had no value out because George is not one of their primary scorers.

You look at teams like the Pacers and Heat, and Bev becomes a liability because he can't score or set other people up. I know we have a big 3 like Miami has a big 3, but come on McHale.

McHale thinks having Harden/Parsons/Howard can replicate the mold of Lebron/Wade/Bosh? Really? Miami's 3 all want to set each other up. All Harden and Howard wants to do is post-ups and ISOs.

 

Lebron looks to sets players up, he is the most unselfish star in the NBA that happens to best player in the NBA also.

 

This statement is just ludicrous....

Read what SirKen just stated... It doesn't matter what pg you have in the game...

T_Man

 

I think you're misstating when you say ball in his hands. Yes GM's would prefer Harden being the primary scorer....but his ability as a ball "handler" is not exactly stellar.

 

If two super alphas, LeBron and Dwayne, can exist on the floor at the same time, then so can James and Jeremy. They proven that countless times last season. Sure James will dictate the offense more then Jeremy does, just as LeBron does in Miami, but opponents need to play Jeremy honestly and Jeremy can serve as an outlet to relieve pressure off like Dwayne does for LeBron.

 

Wade does not the ball in his hands to score...

Both Jeremy and Hardin the ball in their hands to create their shot..

T_Man

 

No, Jeremy doesn't. He's most effective with the ball in his hands, but he's improved significantly as an off the ball player as well.

Even IF you had Lin stand in a corner, you'd *still* have better results simply because Lin has been shooting BETTER than Beverley ALL SEASON.

Jeremy Lin - .497 FG%, .375 3pt%, .571 eFG%, .671 TS%
P. Beverley - .418 FG%, .337 3pt%, .505 eFG%, .532 TS%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2014.html

And while you can talk about Harden running the offense the entire game, but he STILL took only 14 FGA out of a total of 81 FGA by the entire team. In other words, 67 of those FGA's were made by someone OTHER than Harden. Of the 10 Ast's, 8 were made by players OTHER than Harden.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201312200IND.html

In other words, Harden can be offense dominant, but a player like Lin would *still* get touches and opportunities to create. And that is what you need when the opponent's offense does *NOT* primarily run through the PG position, or the PG is one that Beverley can't really stop.

Indiana is just one of those teams that can not only neutralize Harden, but also severely penalizes Patrick Beverley for having limited offensive skills.

What the team needed was someone to help take on the offensive load with Harden out of play, NOT someone to "shut down" George Hill.

 

I tell you guys one thing if Lin numbers was the same as Beverley numbers as a starter. You guys would want to crucify Lin but it's ok when Beverley does it...We only see what we want to see!!!

 

Did your stats happen to mention that most of the 2nd half was played by the second unit. By that time the Rockets offense was out of Rhythm..

Lin is a good player, but the offense has to change from the iso offense that it is... In every post you make it's always a negative about Bev and your statements are not always correct... You are so hyped up about proving how Lin is so much better than bev that you keep missing the entire team focus.

The entire team is limited by this iso offense, so to keep attacking one player about his skills is just way off based. So when they took bev out and put in brooks (whoose offensive skills are better than bev) it still did not change much.

The problem is with the offense, even when Lin comes in and trys to play the iso he makes a lot of the same mistakes and then the so called LOH have a field day on the board. This team played well in the pre-season because they played as a team.

But for you too just keep attacking one player without looking at the entire picture makes no sense and then twisting stats to fit your benefit even makes it worst.

T_Man

 

Exactly and that goes both ways...

T_Man

 

So much ignorance in one post. The team is limited by iso offense and the solution is to give more playing time to Beverley, someone who can't assist and is a worse offensive player in almost every way to Lin ?

 

So what part did you read where i said give more time to bev...

In every post i am saying to get all the players involve into the game REGARDLESS of who's out on the floor and remove the iso offense...

There is a certain time to do iso's but not the majority of the game.....

Your problem like others is that your just attacking bev for no good reason... And as I and others are saying it doesn't matter who you put next to Hardin at this point, things will not change....

But to keep attacking bev is just ridicules, bev is not the major problem on this team and he's not the reason the Rockets loss that game. But after every lost you guys want to attack him and that doesn't make any sense especially when he's not the problem.

T_Man

 

While I agree with you on the Lin vs Bev argument, I have been saying what T_Man is saying since last year's horrible losing streak.

It is not about the PG position. It was never about the PG position. I wanted McHale fired back then because I thought he was going to impact Harden's development negatively. He gave him all the freedom and control of the team with no accountability what so ever. Good luck reigning him in and going back to the team ball now. Also, don't be surprised if there is a losing streak in the coming days and some locker room issues if the same thing repeats tonight.

By the way, the funniest thing is, Howard cried about Kobe and wanted to get away from him only to find himself on another team with a Kobe-like player. Well, I guess the coach here is not insisting on PnR, so it is not all that bad.

 

It's weird that Bev can contain all-star pg but a mediocre pg like George Hill can torch him. I've just watched the game again and Hill had abused him all night, scoring almost all his points on Bev.

 

And this is where you're failing to understand the whole argument. This isn't an attack upon Beverley's skills, this is the REALITY of Beverley's skill set.

Dwight Howard doesn't have an elite post game. That's not an attack, that's the truth.

Beverley is offensively challenged. That's not an attack, that's the truth.

How you can *possibly* say that pointing out that Beverley gets almost NO assists and is shooting *poorly* the entire season is an attack on Beverley is bordering on denying reality.

You can disagree in terms of how many touches Lin would get playing with the first unit, but trying to make it sound like he would get ZERO is ill conceived at best, deliberately delusional at worst.

Consider the following...

Beverley is shooting 8.5 FGA/game. That means he's getting shots and touches. He also has 55% of his shots assisted (he's getting passed and taking open shots. The other 45% of the time he gets the ball and either dribbles and shoots or drives and shoots.

Beverley ALSO shoots with 11 or more seconds on the clock 66% of the time, and 15 or more seconds 36% of the time. This means that there's LOTS of time for him to create.

http://www.82games.com/1314/13HOU3.HTM

In other words, acting like having Lin on the spot instead of Beverley would automatically mean that Lin wouldn't have the opportunity to pass or work a play is blissfully denying the reality of what's happening on the floor.

Yes, Harden will often go ISO. But he doesn't *always* go ISO. And that's where you would benefit with a play maker, whether it was Lin, Lowry, Dragic, or insert 25+ other starting quality offensive PG's over Beverley.

And what "same" mistakes are you talking about? You mean the ones where he takes better shots from the perimeter? Has a higher finishing rate at the rim? Where Lin generates 80% more points on 20% more shot attempts? Where Lin generates double the number of assists and is responsible for 2.4x the percentage of team field goals in about the *same* time on the floor as Beverley?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2014.html

And you're still denying the whole match up problem. The reality is Beverley's calling card is supposed to be Defense. That's great if you shut down a pivotal player, but if you don't then I'd rather have the punch on the floor.

You can try to say this is solely on Harden's ISO's all you want, but the entire team offense does NOT revolve around Harden, nor has it ever. Harden doesn't account for anywhere near 100% of the shots in game, or 100% of the assists even when he's on the floor.

There's an argument for Beverley to be in the starting line up against some teams, in others it makes far less sense.

 

Rockets need to get a new coach who can implement some control on Harden and make him play proper basketball. At the moment it seems they are very happy with Mchale. As long as McHale is the coach Bev, Lin, Asik etc are the problem.

 

Not sure what you're looking at, but Lin's TS% is only .637 now. (Second highest among point guards to Calderon.)

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/trueShootingPct

 

howard like his teammates more. there's a big difference.

 

Fair enough.

Actually, I was one of the people against signing Howard due to all the locker room drama and better utilization of cap space and suffice to say that I have been pleasantly surprised so far. To go even further, he might be crucial in reigning Harden in and in fixing some of our trust issues.

Still, We need a better coach if we ever want to be taken seriously.