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Realistic Solutions : A Few Simple Plays

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by MacBeth, Apr 27, 2003.

  1. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    Okay, I recently posted a tongue in cheek thread about Rockets plays, but I do think it is a serious concern. Wherever you stand on the pro or con Rudy argument, it is generally conceded that Xs and Os are not his strength. That said, he was able to implement an effective offense back in the day; simple, yes, but it did what effective offenses are supposed to do, it utilized the strengths of our players while masking our weaknesses. We did not, at the time, have a dominant playmaking point guard, nor did we, until we brought in Drexler, have a supremely gifted wing man to run with. What we had was an incredibly versatile big man capable of dominating single coverage, and a set of role players, most of whom could, if set, hit the outside shot.

    Now it can be argued that the players who did not fit this style, most notably Robert Horry and later Scottie Pippen were force fed into it until, like Horry, they reduced their game, or like Pippen, took it elsewhere. That is a legitimate argument, but it remains true that what Rudy did worked. And you can see that he tried to do it again. He saw the strengths we had with Francis and Mobley, ie their ability to break down individual players, and he tried to exploit that with the iso penetration offense. Three things worked against him:

    1) Unlike the Hakeem centered offense, the penetration isolation offense had no set comfort zones; the guards penetrated where they could, and as such the complementary players had to either quicky try and find a way to keep a passing lane open between themselves and a moving ball handler, or as was sadly more often the case, give up, set where they were, and allow the defense to cut them off from the ball. Result: Penetration and forced shot or forced pass, either way not cohesive offense, and leading to a lack of team play.

    2) Steve and Cuttino never developed the ability to dominate their man to the level that it demanded a double team, and the double teams were then less predictable than in the Hakeem days. This is not entirely their fault; a dominant post player is simply more automatic than a dominant perimeter player, and the ability to counteract that dominance with a double team is also easier. As such the offense lost the initiative, and became reactionary, sacrificing the ability to dictate when on offense. Result: Shot clocks winding down without any development, and a lot of forced shots.

    3) The zone rules implemented also worked against the offense as was designed. Previously one advantage the offense had was that the guards ability to beat their man one on one could be accentuated by clearing a side and making it a mano a mano thing at least until you got near the bucket. Steve and Cuttino had developed to the point where this was, if not reliable, at least dangerous. The zone defenses allowed teams to guard the areas the guards usually exploited, and further reduced the offensive consistency. Result: Guards usually settling for perimeter shots as penetration pre-emptively cut off.

    Okay...that was what ailed us. Now what's the cure? We can propose coaching changes and trades and free agent signings, but that is all ethereal at this point. I propose a simpler, more accessible solution: Re-design the offense, and,like many successfull offenses, start with a few staple plays that the team can make thier own, and force the defense to try and stop them. Take back the initiaitve, and give people a sense of their roles.

    To do this we need to look at our major strengths and weaknesses...

    * We have 2 very quick guards who can both hit the mid range shot, when open have some range, and most effectively can beat their man when isolated. What they can't do very well is make decisions, or other things which stem from that aspect of the offense. They are neither of them exceptionally good or bad passers, but if the offensive decisions are left in their hands, your offense is going to struggle. This is partly innate, and has been partly learned by virtue of the style they've grown up in, but it is a little late to expect major improvement.

    * We have a center who has great basketball decision making skills, can hit the mid range shot or beat his man down low, and has the vision and ability to really pass the ball. What he can't do at this point is guarantee a deep position every time down the court, and his offensive assertion can be laborious.

    Those are our major strengths. We have role players who can do a bit of everything, somewhat similar to the role players Hakeem had, and we have Mo Taylor who can, when iso'd, often beat single coverage, and Eddie Griffin who may one day be more than a role player on offense.

    Okay, that's it...Here are a few staple plays that I feel should become the Houston equivalent of the Jazz pick and rolls:


    Play 1) Halfcourt Standard Set Up ( Deep Post ).

    I would only run this about 1/2 of the time at this point, depending on how Yao is playing, who we are playing, etc. But the key is to limit the times Yao has to absolutely assert himslef in the low post. I do not feel that he has the stamina right now to fight for it on every play, but were we to limit that demand, he should be able to pretty much do it on those plays it requires.

    Okay, Yao sets up in the deep low post. Francis, with the ball, sets up 5 ft horizontaly outside the left elbow. (This is key: Clearing the side and letting Yao go one on one eliminates, or at least vastly reduces his ability to use his passing skills as the defense can defend lanes to a flooded area. Keeping Francis on the same side, albeit deep, opens up the passing angles.) Cuttino sets up either in the right corner, or 10 feet away from the end of court on the right side. The power forward sets up mid way from the right block and the right elbow, and the small forward, say Rice sets up to the right of the top of the key at the arc.

    *Okay...if the defense is playing straight up, the ball goes into Yao in the post, and we play the Hakeem offense. Yao takes his man one on one or passes off of the double team. Pure and simple, and probably still a staple of the offense that Yao will have to grow into.

    *If the defense is in a zone, it changes a bit. If it's a soft zone, ie if it's fairly loose and spread out, like a box and 1, or a 2-3, then the ball goes into Yao, the pf pushes down to the baseline, and Cuttino breaks out from the corner towards the key about 10 feet from the line. Steve backs off. If the defense reacts to the entry pass, and sags, the ball goes out to Steve or the sf for the perimeter shot. If the defense stays, Yao takes his man. If the defense does an internal shift, ie if the inside guys sag but the outside guys stay put, Yao looks either to the pf along the baseline if that's where the defense bailed, or more likely to the cutting Mobley for the 10-15 footer or taking it to the hoop.

    *If it's a hard zone, like a 3-2, then Cuttino comes across court around the ft line, while Steve cuts either underneath or over him. The pf comes out to set a staggered pick, and the sf can either move to the spot Cuttino abandoned, or take up position at the dead center of the top of the 3-pt line. Ball goes into Yao...defense stays, Yao takes his man or looks for anyone coming clear off of the mid range staggered picks. There are all kinds of options here, but most likely yao goes 1 on 1, or the opposing 4 comes off ours when he sets the pick, at which point Steve or Cuttino has to come free off either end of the pick. This will be a tough call for yao, to know which end of the scrum the free man will come out of, but he has the skill, and practice will allow him to read the probabilities. When it does, you have the ball coming to either Steve or Cuttino just as they come free from the pick, on either side of the ft line, with the option to shoot, penetrate, or kick it out to the sf in the corner if that defender sags towards the scrum. If the defense reacts to the entry, back to Hakeem options.

    There are many options and alternates to these plays, too many to explain, but you get the main thrust.


    Play 2) Secondary Halfcourt Set ( High Post )

    Yao, to conserve his energy for Play 1, sets up in the high post by design. Steve sets up at the top of the key, with the ball. Cuttino sets up near either corner, the sf the other. PF tries to establish position in right post. If the defense tries to deny Yao hight post, 1 of 2 things happen. 1) Yao allows defense to push him out, and the pf and whichever of the sf/sg are in the left corner cut to the basket. Either one sets a pre-arranged pick for the other underneath the center busy pushing Yao out. Steve delivers the ball to whichever comes open within 5 feet of the basket. He can always shoot or penetrate as defense allows if the underneath pick fails to open someone up, or if the opposing center sees what is happening behind him he can fake the pass underneath, draw the center off Yao, and hit him for the 15 footer. 2) Another option is that Yao waits for the center to come off him a little with the underneath stuff, and then curls outside him ( can be initiated with Steve fakng pass) towards the basket ( curling to his right) and Steve hits him for the alley-oop or 5 footer.

    If the defense gives Yao the high post, the ball goes into him, and he faces up. If the defender still plays off, several things can happen. He can shoot, or the two corner men ( sf and sg) can either come around the outside, cross along the baseline, or Steve can look to beat his man to the hoop for the alley oop. If the defender comes up on him when he faces up, Steve comes around the outside and they run a simple pick and roll, while the left corner guy cuts outside to the spot Steve has left.

    Those are my two basic halfcourt set ups. They maximize our strengths, put most of our decisions in the hands of the guy who makes the best ones, but stil leave quite a few, plus the offense initiation in the hands of Steve to satisfy his pride, and use his abilities. There are many variations,often to get others involved, and I would still run specific plays to , say, set up a Rice for a 3, etc. The other thing these plays do is, when they break down, the Rockets still have the old Steve or Cuttino just beats their man...but only as a safety valve. Still going to happen enough times to keep them happy and exploit their ability, plus it will make them more effective when they do because defense won't be waiting for it.

    Most of all what these plays do, however, is reclaim the offensive initiative and get the players moving. We take control and dictate rather than sit back and wait for an opening for penetration. It's not too fancy, we're not expecting the Rockets to suddenly become the Kings or Mavs, but it's flexible, aggressive, and uses our strengths.





    PEACE


    JAG
     
    #1 MacBeth, Apr 27, 2003
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2003
  2. Sherlock

    Sherlock Member

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    well thought through, as usual...
     
  3. Yun

    Yun Member

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    If only this come true.:( :(
     
  4. jshabang

    jshabang Member

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    Its scary when people on a message board think up better gameplans than the guys getting paid big bucks.......what is this world coming to...if you can figure it out what the hell is Rudy's problem:mad: :confused:
     
  5. KeepJuaquin

    KeepJuaquin Member

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    Very very very interesting. I love it.
     
  6. KeepJuaquin

    KeepJuaquin Member

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    Just copy the Spurs playbook. :)
     
  7. jshabang

    jshabang Member

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    have you been watchin the first round:)
     
  8. KeepJuaquin

    KeepJuaquin Member

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    At least they made the first round!

    Of course....we would need to make a few adjustments to make the offense fit us.

    But uhh yes....play how the Jazz play! LOOK AT HOW THEY ARE DOING IN THE PLAYOFFS!

    But of course..look at the Kings..who play similar to them. ;)

    Hmm...why can't we do easy stuff like have Yao shoot open jumpers? Or get him easy layups? Do simple stuff that Suns do with Voshkul or 76ers do with Tyrone Hill?

    Anyways...those a good simple plays. That should be told to Coach Rudy!
     
  9. rvpals

    rvpals Member

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    Don't worry. Acutally I think Rudy knows how these simple and effective plays MacBeth mention. I would expect the team playing much better as a team using everyone's strengths.

    I think we can stick to Pick n Roll, it looks great when Marlone and Stockton run it and mix that with some set of lakers' Shaq to Role player - to Kobe, Kobe-Role Players back to Shaq, and the whole sequence. We're lucky that Yao is much better passer than Shaq, he can see the plays develop and anticipate.
     
  10. jshabang

    jshabang Member

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    If he does know what Mac beth is saying, he hasn't showed it in 4 years.........maybe his learning curve is a little more broad than the rest of us....;)
     
  11. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    Guys; the point here isn't whether or not Rudy knows these plays, or other ones...the point is whether or not these plays could answer the problem. I really think they could...I can actually see these plays happening. Rather than getting into another RUdy bash, let's get into a discussion about what could work. These could.

    In my opinion, there are several interesting topics of discussion here: Do you agree with my assessment of why the translation of the Hakeem offence to the Steve and Cat years failed, or do you have your own? Do you agree with my assessment of our current major strengths and weaknesses, or do you have others? Do you see the value in creating staple plays which become our bread and butter? Anybody have any comments on the plays themselves, or their variations...or have any alternatives to suggest?

    I spent a fair amount of time on thse plays...ok, not that much time, but some, and I would hate to see that time wasted on just another discusssion about whether or not RUdy sucks. No disrespect to those who feel that way, but please use this thread as it was intended. Much appreciated.


    PEACE

    JAG
     
    #11 MacBeth, Apr 28, 2003
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2003
  12. ty185

    ty185 Member

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    wow... such a well thought post... hehe. maybe I should change my votings in the most respectable BBSers now. :)

    keep up with the good work dude~ :)
     
  13. KeepJuaquin

    KeepJuaquin Member

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    I definitely agree!

    But it would be nice if someone made diagrams of these plays...;)

    PLEASE!

    Somebody do it!

    The plays are very good and well set up....now tell Rudy!
     
  14. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    why do people assume there are simple answers.

    MacBeth,

    sorry for saying this, but your play calling solutions is an insult to NBA defenses and seriously overestimates the abilities of our team to make reads that adjust to all the things the defenses can do to stop your "Few Simple Plays." Just like you said, "I won't bother to mention all the options to this," I won't bother to describe our your "scrum" analogy has nothing to do with zoning what you described. There are a "Few Simple Defensive Plays" to stop your scrum action that is just clogging the lane.

    I mean, we can't even run a PnR consistently, and you think you have a simple play that solves that?

    pfft
     
  15. KeepJuaquin

    KeepJuaquin Member

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  16. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    !?!?!?

    The point was that, as it stands, our halfcourt offensive sets are all reactive; we have given up the two advantages which offense inherantly possesses over defense; the ability to dictate the play, and the ability to, through practice, have a more complete familiarity with said plays and defensive reactions to same than the defense can.

    Your argument could be extended to preclude learning any plays. I don't get your point. The plays above all have R&R aspects, but they are basic enought that, once farmiliar with them, offensive players with even the limited R&R capabilities of some of our players they should be effective, partly becuase much of the initial R&R would be done by Yao, who is better at it than most of our players.

    So if I get your point...we can't even run a PnR...so give up? Is that what you're saying? I'm saying, short of giving up on the one side and trading the team on the other, the plays I outlined, or ones like them could be the answer. You are responding by saying that defenses can account for them ( as opposed to what existing plays in basketball?!?!), and that our players can't run a PnR...

    Ohhh...and you add a dismissive 'pfft' to finish off on a touch of class. You would hvae had more respect had i posted something akin to " These players suck, our coach sucks, let's get rid of them all!" That's what you're looking for? Sorry for trying....
     
  17. crash5179

    crash5179 Member

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    Now how did that end up in this thread!?

    :D
     
  18. pasox2

    pasox2 Member
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    Good thinking. Good dismissal of HP. ;). Yes, of course there is always a way to defend. What can we do that's hard to defend?

    Hint - we have a player that's 7'6".

    I don't think we'll have Cuttino to kick around next year. Or Rice.
    So rethink with new options as they develop.
     
  19. leebigez

    leebigez Member

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    This teams lack of attention to detail hurts them also. Macbeth , I agree with alot of what you say, but it seems that alot of the Rockets problems is the lack of trust to run the team just like plenty of other teams. Remember how easily Tim Hardaway used to score with Golden State? Once he went to Miami, the newly overcontrolling Pat Riley had him looking to the sideline every possession. What funny is that Miamis record was almost perfect when they scored 100pts. Thats not to say that the will play .900 basketball if they scored 100 pts, but the of offensive freedom by the pg slowed the team down to a crawl and thus, they looked similar to the Pistons of this yr. Their lack of offense despite having offensive players made them a small margin for error.

    HeyP, basketball no matter how you cut it is one of the easiest game to coach. Why? Hoops unlike many other sport is free flowing and reactionary like instincts. The problem with todays game is coaches want to control everything the team does offensively. You look at a coach like Pat Riley who had one of the quickest playing teams in La, goes to NY, and calls every play like its the last play of the game. Of course you can't argue with his record, but what has he done since he left la 13 yrs ago? I nba finals trip, numerous 1st or 2nd rd exits despite having the more talented team, and 2 lotto season now. The last time he was in the playoffs, his "new" style of coaching was exposed by the Hornets and his teams have been affected by it.

    I like some of what Macbeth is saying and this team isn't this far off, but this team is very,very boring. Its not that its boring because they're not winning or in the playoffs, they're boring because of the way they play. They were boring when they won 45 games, they were boring last yr, and they're boring this yr. Basketball is suppose to be quick and free flowing, passing cutting ,and stuff like that. How many games did the Rockets play when they didn't even have 5 fast breaks? How many times did the rockets play with single digit asst. How can a team be the 2nd best defensive rebounding team in the league, yet have the be towards the bottom is fast breaks. How can a team that has a 20pt scorer,a 17 pt scorer avg less pts that the Magic who have McGrady and the next productive offensive player is a rookie?This team plays slow despite being young. Boring ,losing basketball, gets no people in the summit,compaq center or any other arena in houston.
     
  20. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    But knowing their roles, as would come with a system like the one I dvocated would get all of them involved, all of them being part of the offense, and more importatly all of them knowing their roles. That is where true team sports confidence comes from; knowing your job so well that you know you'll do it, and knowing that your teammate will do the same. Familiarity with people may breed contempt, but familiarity with an offensive scheme like this breeds championships,
     

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