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Mo, Ro, and Red -- we're dead

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by xiki, Apr 18, 2003.

  1. xiki

    xiki Member

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    Just musing, early in the season, about the Mo/Ro/Red spots in the rotation, particularly with Shane's good, early returns.

    The 'stros braintrust appears braindrained, and has since Jimi was hired (particularly considering how well Pena is working out).

    My, oh my, the season will be long, the future bleak. Prove my lament wrong, 'stros, prove me wrong. If you can.
     
  2. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    The Astros are 3-0 when Moehler pitches.
     
  3. xiki

    xiki Member

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    So, he's a good luck charm?
     
  4. DVauthrin

    DVauthrin Member

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    You know not of what you speak, Xiki.

    Tell me have the Royals faced the Cardinals and Giants for 9 games.

    They are off to a good start because they have played everyone in the pathetic AL Central other than Minnesota.

    It's nice to see them doing well, but once they play good competition, they will fall off.

    Jimy Williams is a decent manager, like most in baseball. I would rather have Felipe Alou or Dusty Baker, but he isn't that bad.

    Though I wish he would stop starting Brian Hunter now.

    As far as Redding, Moehler and Robertson go:

    Tim has had a nice start to the year, pitching well against St. Louis twice and keeping us in the game last night after a poor start. Moehler has a forearm problem, but had a good start in houston against the cardinals, and let's be fair: his three starts have been against STL twice and the hottest team in baseball, the Giants. So, it's not a surprise he has struggled. And he should improve. Robertson has been up and down, struggling vs the Rockies and Giants but shutting down the Reds. But he is a rookie and that inconsistency will happen. He has struggled the most of the three, but if I remember right it was one bad inning vs Colorado that did him in.

    Also, we have an unbelievably good bullpen with Brad Lidge's emergence. Lidge, Dotel and Wagner mean games will usually be over for opponents if the Stros lead after 6 innings. And munro and stone are serviceable bullpen guys.

    Then offensively, we have got nothing from Lance, nothing from Lugo, little from 3b, Bagwell is raking, Biggio has nice power but is struggling, Kent is solid but hasn't hit his stride yet, Hidalgo is solid, and Ausmus has been better than expected. So our offense hasnt even come close to its potential yet, and yes a lot of that is facing the Cards and Giants 9 out of 16 ballgames.

    For all these problems and schedule difficulties we are still 9-7.

    So what exactly here says the future is so bleak as you think?

    Because the stats show otherwise.
     
  5. eric.81

    eric.81 Member

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    DVauthrin - 1; xiki - 0
     
  6. xiki

    xiki Member

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    Actually, the score is Shane 2 (good starts) 'stros 1 for 4 in Bud's home park, where there is more brat than bat.

    This 'stros team is far from being one #3 pitcher or whatever from contention. This team started off Kardiac Kidz-like, with 'special' written all over them. Now, reality has settled in, and the reality is that Kent is Clark without Barry, there is no starting depth behind the two wonderful arms of Oswalt and Miller, short is well, short, quality depth is also short and managerial reins are handled by Jimi who should never have been hired.

    Hunsicker is making more and more bad decisions.

    The fans hardly flocked to the park after the great start, and let's see how the owner handles 'more $ losses'.

    Go 'stros, if only you could.
     
  7. RunninRaven

    RunninRaven Member
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    You talk about reality setting in, and the you go on to make bold, black and white statements about the team after ~15 games into the season. Kent has had slow starts in the past. The 3-5 rotation guys could pick up their game (and it can be argued that Redding already has) and this team has excellent depth in Ensberg, Merced and Zaun. Hunter and Vizcaino are the only bench guys that have really disappointed me this season. But like I say, it is early. Be the pessimistic fan when the team is underachieving if you must, but please be man enough to stand up and admit you were wrong if it turns out to be so.
     
  8. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    1. You're judging a baseball team...in a sport that competes over the course of 162 games...in an 18 game span. Come on.

    2. The fans...in case you haven't noticed attendance is off virtually everywhere this year so far. That's what happens when the economy sucks..disposable income for things like baseball games trails off. In addition, it's not summer yet...attendance always spikes after school gets out.

    3. They had a bad series...they are having a bad road trip. But don't write off the 'stros for that. Certainly you're old enough to have seen enough baseball to know that this team isn't dead after 18 games. That's asinine.
     
  9. xiki

    xiki Member

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    Originally posted by Raven Lunatic:
    Be the pessimistic fan when the team is underachieving if you must, but please be man enough to stand up and admit you were wrong if it turns out to be so.

    I promise to publicly (at least in this public forum) eat crow if 'stros rise up and have a good season. I want them to do well, but I believe that The Texans and the Rox will parade long before this franchise. Part of that is the ridiculous structure of the labor agreement(s).

    I am discouraged because I think they are are foolish with their expenditures (Kent was a good addition, BTW -- while Williams was a bad non-signing, for example) while making bad personnel judgments (including, apparently, Shane and Ginter).


    Originally posted by MadMax

    1. You're judging a baseball team...in a sport that competes over the course of 162 games...in an 18 game span. Come on.
    Valid point, except I judged them BEFORE the Opener, and I am just plain discouraged.

    2. The fans...in case you haven't noticed attendance is off virtually everywhere this year so far. That's what happens when the economy sucks..disposable income for things like baseball games trails off. In addition, it's not summer yet...attendance always spikes after school gets out.
    Again, valid point. However, the attendance trends for the Astros are frightening. Frightening because the owner always moans and groans about $ and there is less flowing through the turnstiles. Therefore I assume Drayton will tighten belts even tighter and the product will be squeezed harder than a Tropicana Orange!

    3. They had a bad series...they are having a bad road trip. But don't write off the 'stros for that. Certainly you're old enough to have seen enough baseball to know that this team isn't dead after 18 games. That's asinine.
    Again, valid. Again, I wrote them off before the opener.

    C'mon, Houston Astros, make me look stupid and dumb. I can take it. Can you deliver?
     
  10. xiki

    xiki Member

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    For one game TRed and the 'stros looked good. Keep it comin', guys, make me eat my words. I just doubt I will as the marathon goes on.
     
  11. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Time to start Lidge!
     
  12. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    No way. At this point, teams shouldn't be able to score on us from the 7th inning on.

    Of course, if Robertson and Moehler don't shape up (yes, I know we're 3-0 in Moehler's starts), then maybe I'll agree with you, but not yet.
     
  13. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    exactly!! Lidge is WAY too valuable in the pen right now
     
  14. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    I would like to see the Astros let Ausmus have a start with Robertson to see if he fares any better. It concerned me in his first start when he said that one of his problems was that he quit pitching inside which may have led to Colorado's big inning against him. Why did Zaun "let" him quit pitching inside? Ausmus is head and shoulders above Zaun as a defensive catcher. Let Zaun work with Moeller since Moeller's a veteran.
     
  15. Nick

    Nick Member

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    Finally... somebody else who agrees with me. Not many people look at "How a catcher calls a game" as a valid statement of how good a catcher is, but Ausmus' talent is that good.

    Look at 2000, when Mitch Melusky was our catcher... a lot of our pitching struggles happened to be because he couldn't call a game for the life of him. Last year, both Redding and Mlicki suffered under Zaun's "tuteledge".

    I'm sure Ausmus would make Robertson a little better throughout the game, but then again... he needs a day off every now and then. In fact, I'd be more comfortable w/ Oswalt paired up with Zaun... if Zaun makes a mistake, Oswalt will be smart enough to pick up on it.
     
  16. xiki

    xiki Member

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    If RoyO and WM don't get their 'stuff' together the back end of the rotation and left side of the infield and managerial ineptitude will be irrelevent.

    C'mon, 'stros, you are better than 1 up 2 down, aren't you?
     
  17. xiki

    xiki Member

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    It smells like the time is ripe to fire the manager. To blow up the manager, and maybe the GM, as well.
     

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