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Jeremy Lin out 2 weeks with grade one knee sprain (UPDATE: Will return vs. Portland)

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by thesonofsam, Nov 29, 2013.

  1. meh

    meh Contributing Member

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    The Rockets will have 3 days off to test Lin's status. I'm sure they can make a proper decision with this time off.

    What I'm personally hoping is that Lin's return can allow Parsons to sit some games out. Put Harden at SF at times and run some 3 guard sets.
     
  2. DL24

    DL24 Member

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    way too valuable of a player to rush back, when he does come back, it should be against a crap team, like kobe coming back against the raptors looolll
     
  3. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    And no matter what anyone says otherwise, offensive production is valued more than defensive production. Why do you think James Harden is a superstar and Avery Bradley is a good role player.
     
  4. TheDr34m

    TheDr34m Contributing Member

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    Offensive production sells tickets.
     
  5. sleepyazn

    sleepyazn Member

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    Plus in many cases, a good offense is the best defense.
     
  6. meh

    meh Contributing Member

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    Players who contribute as much to defense as Harden does on offense. get the money/accolades Harden gets. If Avery Bradleys can make Harden, Wade, CP3, etc. all look like Beverley, he'd be a max player and perennial all-star.

    Ben Wallace, Hibbert, Deke just a few notable examples of little-offense/all-defense players that get treated like stars.
     
  7. smr6

    smr6 Member

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    Using big men as examples is a terrible comparison. Bigs already get overpaid just for being able to run and chew gum at the same time. Compare Tony Allen's (Best Wing defender in the NBA and plays same position as Harden) contract to Hardens.

    You will see just how different elite offense and elite defense get paid.
     
  8. Pumpedupkicks

    Pumpedupkicks Member

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    Why would it be detrimental if he's cleared to play?

    Personally, I'm a fan of defense. I'd rather watch a team play good defense than trade shots and hope that they can outscore the opponent.

    Anyway, what you brought up wasn't my even point. My point was people keep bringing up biased stats to measure Beverley even thought we all know Bev is in the starting lineup mostly for his defense. And since the starting lineup is NOT a problem, and we need Lin to lead the 2nd unit (cause Brooks is just not that reliable), it's even more ridiculous to make it seem like IT MATTERS that Bev is not producing like other starting PGs when his role is NOT to produce like other starting PG. His role is to slow down/stop the opposing PG and he has done that fairly well. And let's not forget that we already have a lot of offensive power in the starting lineup from the other 4 positions. That was all.
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. meh

    meh Contributing Member

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    To compare Allen's defense with Harden's offense is in of itself the most laughable idea ever.

    82games list the PER of all players at different positions, along with their counterparts. And here's what the results are in terms of PER differential. As in a player's PER - opponent PER.

    At SG, where Allen played 92% of his minutes and Harden played 95% of his minutes
    Allen PER differential: +2.7
    Harden PER differential: +9.3

    At SF, where Allen playe 8% of his minutes and Harden played 5%
    Allen PER differential: -5.1
    Harden PER differential: +4.1

    If you tell Morey you believe Tony Allen is the defensive equivalent of James Harden, he'd look at you like you're on on crazy pills.
     
  10. zdrav

    zdrav Member

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    Tony Allen has a PER of 18.77.
     
  11. Exel

    Exel Member

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    If PER is heavily biased to offensive output and no one here is claiming the Tony Allen is an offensive beast, why are you using the PER differential to judge Tony? For example, Tony's PER is 5 and he's holding his opponent to a 2.3 PER. So while Tony's offense sucks, his opponent is even more pitful.
     
  12. Pumpedupkicks

    Pumpedupkicks Member

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    He's also a SG who's usage rate is more similar to Lin than Beverley. Plus, he actually plays a scoring role for MEM, unlike Bev, who is a shooter, not a scorer. See how their offensive roles are different?

    That's not to see Bev can't develop an offensive game, he just doesn't need to have a sophisticated one (playing next to Harden/Lin) in order to be a productive PG for the Rockets.
     
  13. Lihao

    Lihao Member

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    That's not a good way to define Allen impact of the game. Allen is not the main guy of offence and always guarding opponents best player while Harden is the 1st option of the team.
    If you want to use PER differential for Allen impact , it should be the difference of opponent PER in the game against his average , for example if his assignment has a average PER of 19 but Allen hold him to 15 PER , that's a +4 for Allen.
     
  14. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Ben Wallace and Deke are some of the best defenders of all time. I bet you the best offensive players of all time 1. are paid more relative to their era 2. garnered more fame 3. were more important to their team.
    Offense is and always will be more valued than defense in the NBA.
     
  15. i3artow i3aller

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    Welcome back J Lin!
     
  16. meh

    meh Contributing Member

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    No they weren't. Big Ben played in the same era as Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnet. Deke played in the same era as Hakeem, Robinson, Rodman, Pippen, Ewing, etc. They weren't even the best defensive players of their own generation. They're only one of the best. Just like Harden is one of the best offensive players today.
     
  17. meh

    meh Contributing Member

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    Sure, I'll compare it this way. Both Harden and Allen play in the same divison, so technically they see the same players(with stat slightly skewed towards Harden since he doesn't face himself).

    Opponent PER for Allen is 11.8. For Harden it's 14.6. So on average opposing SGs are 2.8 less PER against Allen.

    The difference of 2.8 PER is like turning Vince Cater(17.8 PER last year) into an average player like Jeff Green. Excuse me while I'm not drooling at the prospect of a player being able to turn above average offense into average offense.

    Tony Allen got a $5mil/yr contract in the offseason. You know how many teams would pay triple that for James Harden assuming no tax issues? Try 30 teams.
     
  18. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Dikembe Mutombo is one of the best defensive players of all time. He and Wallace are each 4 time defensive players of the year. I am confident enough to state that Big Ben had more of a defensive impact than Garrnet or Duncan. Notice how there is no "offensive player of the year" award. There is no award titled that because it exists in the form of "Most Valuable Player".

    Steve Nash winning two MVPs is sufficient enough evidence that my opinion is the correct one. He won on offensive performance alone.
    Do you think any player EVER will win the MVP award on defensive performance alone?
     
    #518 fchowd0311, Dec 9, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2013
  19. Calamity.12

    Calamity.12 Member

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    Ben Wallace was a 4 time dpoy... His lateral quickness, boarding ability, and help defense I think we're unmatched by the other big men defensive standouts of that time. It's fine if you feel dpoy means nothing but there is a really strong case to be made that Big Ben was the best defensive player of that the 2000s.
     
  20. Voice of Aus

    Voice of Aus Contributing Member

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    Scoring title would be the equivalent to that
     

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