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Pentagon planning for strike on North Korean nuke facilities

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by treeman, Apr 23, 2003.

  1. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    ....sigh...Once again, interpret the words as you want...

    I said that the statement " How do you stop something peacefully when the other side has no respect for its own agreements." could easily be applied to us...which, given any number of recent developments ( Geneva Convention, United Nations agreement, Tokyo, etc.) is patently true...and of course you respond by saying that unless we are sending assassins into Mexico, etc., my statement is absurd. Well, I will respond in kind by saying that, unless you can prove that I was in the Watergate apartments to burgle, I am clealry a better chess player than you.
     
  2. mrpaige

    mrpaige Member

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    Well, I would not include anything that didn't have to do with North Korea. Have we broken agreements with them? As far as I know, we lived up to the previous agreement only to see North Korea completely ignore it.

    But I guess it's okay if they don't live up to that agreement since we've not lived up to other agreements with other nations in the past.

    So I guess military action is the only way to go. That was easier to solve than I thought.
     
  3. treeman

    treeman Member

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    As your response indicates, I interpreted it correctly. You are arguing that we break treaties just as much as NK does, are no more trustworthy, ethical, moral, etc because of it - correct? Sure seems like that's what you're saying.

    Geneva Conventions? Oh, you must be talking about the prisoners in Guantanamo. Well, since they weren't wearing military uniforms, they are not considered prisoners of war, which makes their treatment perfectly legal under the Geneva conventions, but of course as a military historian you know that, so... if that's not what you're talking about, then exactly what are you talking about?

    UN agreement? Please, tell show me the sanctions placed against the US by the UN for its actions inside Iraq? If anything, we have just upheld a UN resolution - 1441. Please point out to me the resolution that prohibits us from taking action inside Iraq. And a news article or something showing where the UN condemned our action, I must have missed that. Thanks.

    Tokyo - you mean the Kyoto agreement? Wow, we didn't sign onto an agreement that heavily favored developing nations against our own interests. What a surprise? I forgot, did we ever actually sign it?

    Well, I'm glad you get my drift. :)
     
  4. mrpaige

    mrpaige Member

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    That reminds me, treeman. You are in violation of a contract I drew up with you. I know you didn't sign it, but in it, you agreed to pay me the sum of $15,000 by March 31, 2003.
     
  5. treeman

    treeman Member

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    I guess I'm just a flurging rogue, mrpaige. ;)
     
  6. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    1)tree...I've explained this before, re: Iraq, and will do so again now...A statement that a country does not abide by it's agreements is either true or not...It is not MORE true about one if they have done it 14 times than an another who has only done it 11 times...Either you are trustworthy, or , as mr paige pointed out, others cease to have faith in your word on agreements.

    2) I am talking about several Geneva Convention violations including, as per our very own Donald Rumsfeld, showing POWs on camera...Do I have to sit at the back of the press room now?

    3) Un agreement...Security Council, agreement in principle and practice as to definition of defensive action: sub section re: qualifier of pre-emptive/prevenatative actions of 'defense'..Agreement to not undertake ' military aggression', which defintion we agreed to states is the case re:" pre-emptive/preventative defense, outside of the authority of UN Sec. Council ruling...You do remember that whole debate before UN to get approval thingie, right?

    4) There are other examples...For example...Rumsfeld, echoed by yourself, as I recall, recently said that the agreement we signed re: chem. weapons should be ignored...You're now arguing the other side? Well, if you live long enough, you get to see everything, the saying goes...
     
  7. treeman

    treeman Member

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    I thought we already hashed this out? If the POWs are caught on a reporter's camera and shown being searched or herded to collection points, whatever, then that is considered a newsworthy event and is not a violation. When they are interrogated or beaten on camera, or if their rights are violated in an attempt to produce propaganda, then that is a violation. We have not violated anyone's rights, nor have we broken any of the Geneva conventions in our treatment of either Iraqi or Taliban/Al Qaeda prisoners.

    Please try again.

    You do remember Resolution 1441, don't you? Sorry, a UN resolution doesn't have to include the words "Such and such is authorized to use force" in order for force to be legal. If the UN thought it was illegal, then the UN would have sanctioned us for it. So much for the efficacy of your precious UN. :p

    And was it? Were "chemical weapons" - a.k.a., nonlethal weapons, a much more accurate and less misleading description - actually used? Methinksnot.

    So, now it's illegal and a breach of contract for any US official to speculate on what he or she *thinks* we should do? Why don't you try again.

    Oh, and do I think we should use nonlethal weapons in war? Yep. Call me an evil treaty-breaker, but I *fully* and *wholehearedly* support avioding unnecessary killing and the use of nonlethals where their use is feasible.

    As for our treaty-breakingness, why don't you try something like "Well, we violated the ABM treaty" or something. I mean, technically we withdrew and therefore did not break that particular treaty, but it's alot closer to what you're arguing, and a much better example than anything you've given yet. ;)
     
  8. RocketBurrito

    RocketBurrito Member

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    Awesome. We're Americans, we blow **** up, that's what we do.

    :cool:
     
  9. UTweezer

    UTweezer Member

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    peace through superior fire power
     
  10. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Member

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    Just like we paid off Pakistan to call themselves our "ally," even though the Pakistanis have nuclear weapons and millions of people who hate us, among them supporters and members of Al Qaeda?

    Just like the U.S. kisses up to Saudi Arabia and sells them weapons and such because they are so rich they have inextricably linked themselves to our economy, even while they have funneled hundreds of millions of dollars to Al Qaeda, which was certainly used to fund the 9/11 operation? A country so backward they have mass public beheadings (there's some propaganda we don't see).

    By kissing up, I mean, having Colin Powell call Prince Bandar to placate him about our intentions in the Mideast.

    Bush doesn't just take a nap out at his Crawford ranch. He recently had Prince Bandar visit him out there, right as our invasion of Iraq was starting.

    Sorry, but politics is ugly on both sides of the fence. Maybe Bush is smart enough (the only time I will ever call him smart) to keep most of his crap out of the public eye. Daddy could teach him a trick or two on that.
     
  11. ArtV

    ArtV Member

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    Please tell me we are not really going to do that. Where do we get off thinking we are the only ones who can have nukes?
     
  12. Chance

    Chance Member

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    I have been so concerned with Iraq that I admittedly haven't studied up on Kim or the N Korean problem. He's a druggie?
     

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