Thoughts for Les: aren't we similar to the pre-championship Lakers?

So you're in agreement that the Rockets need at least another season to adjust to the Posey trade, which was also a mid-season trade, and the Ming acquisition, giving the team a training camp and a full pre-season with Ming and Posey, which they have not had yet?

Also, how on earth were Shaquille O'Neal and Bryant able to improve with Glen Rice on their team, who averaged over 17 shots a game in Charlotte? I thought there couldn't be another guy on the team taking that many shots? Let's see, the Lakers trade Eddie Jones, who was only taking 11 shots a game, for Glen Rice, who was averaging 17 shots a game? Why is that? How were there enough shots to go around? How were Bryant and Shaq able to improve their games?

 

Brand went to Duke. My guess is he is at least a little smart.

The Rockets do not need a decision maker in their 4 position. With Yao around, who can play the game a little further from the basket and who is also a very good interior passer, we need someone who can rebound and score inside. Brand is the type of guy who will post up 5 times a game, get 5 interior passes from Yao a game and get 5 offensive rebounds a game to get his 15 shots a night. He can get all of that in the flow of any offense. Brand is a great fit IMO *** IF *** we don't have Mobley.

It is my opinion that if we could somehow swing Miller and Brand out of LAC without giving up Francis or Yao, we could be dominating. Talent wise, it would IMO probably take at least Mobley, Griffin, and Cato. Moneywise, a little more work needs to be done there as I don't profess to be a $$ expert when it comes to the NBA.

But my ideal for next year would be
PG Miller/Maddox
SG Francis/Posey
SF Rice/Nachbar
PF Brand/TMO
C Ming/???

No idea what I would do with Taylor or Moochie or how I would back up Ming yet. Although for backing up C, I would really personally like to inquire about Ken Johnson (showing my OSU bias), who last I heard, Miami had the rights to. I think he could develop into a Kelvin Cato type guy if he ever got a legitimate shot. And I do know that if I have Brand and Miller, I really don't want Taylor or Norris around.

 

So Mobley couldn't take a 'lesser role'?

I thought the point was that Francis and Ming weren't getting enough shots?

Kenny Smith and Vernon Maxwell were similar players as well.

 

I can't agree with this more MManal. My main concern, though, is not Kobe regularly dropping 50 on Francis. My main concern is that Kobe CAN regularly drop 50 points on Francis at least 3 times in a 7-game series.

I think Miller is better than standing pat, but then again, I think waiting one year is definitely betetr than giving Miller anything more than 8 Million per year.

I think that if we can swing a deal for Miller, we can just as well swing a deal for Payton, which would be a better option, even at a much higher salary. I'd rather sign Payton for 3 years at 10M+ per season than sign Miller at around 8M for 5 to 7 years.

Payton can defend 2-guards, brings floor leadership, and Francis will actually be a better player by the end of Payton's tenure. Aside from that, Francis will most probably improve as a PG and grow as a leader.

One thing we DO agree on is that Steve Francis just doesn't know how to play defense. The effort is there, but he's simply not good at it.

If we can't get Brand or any other big-time player, I think Payton is a GREAT way to go. I know one thing. Payton will NEVER let a team as talented as the Rockets not make the playoffs. We're pretty much guaranteed 8th and can go as high as 5th next year with Payton at the helm.

 

I disagree. Kenny Smith used to be a creator as well. He changed his game to be more of a spot-up shooter to help the team. There is no indication that Mobley can't do the same thing.

Look at Kenny's assist numbers:
'91: 7.1
'92: 6.9
'93: 5.4
'94: 4.2
'95: 4.0

Look at his 3-pt attempts:
'91: 135
'92: 137
'93: 219
'94: 220
'95: 331

You can clearly see a change in his game which coincided with the team's improvement. Again, Mobley has already played at least 3 different roles in his Rocket career-- starting point, 6th man, starting 2. There is every indication that he can change his game and that Rudy can get him to do so.

 

The pre-championship Lakers actually made the playoffs...

 

Sane,

I fully agree on Payton. If the Rockets land him, you can pencil in a top 5 seed and 50+ wins next yr. I would give up Mobley, Griffin and Rice in a sign and trade for him w/o batting an eyelid. Problem is, the minute Payton got dealt to Milwaukee, I felt our chances of getting him flew right out the window. I have heard the Bucks would consider just letting him go b/c they want to cut payroll, and if that is the case, why would they take on guaranteed contracts instead if they want to cut payroll? Also, if they are willing to pony up the bucks for Payton, why deal him away since George Karl absolutely loves his game? Either scenario, I just dont see Payton coming here.

Also, I would much rather not wait an entire season for Brand. If the Rockets can land him this summer, then great go for it. However, the odds of landing Brand are very slim and waiting a year for him while standing pat and enduring a fifth straight lotto season is not the way to go. This summer there are a ridiculous number of players avail on the trade market, now is the time to put the appropriate team together, next summer, the market could become very dry.

 

That's enough out of you, negative nancy.

 

Lakers won, once they brought in Phil Jackson.

Phil>Rudy

 

This is the best thread i have read in quite a while.

 

I think this theory holds absolutely ZERO water.

Shaq and Kobe were going to win, regardless. It just took them a while to get used to playing with each other... sound familiar? They'd both been in the league for years by then, unlike say, a certain Rockets PG and C who have been in the NBA for a combined 5 seasons, 4 training camps, and about 70 games TOGETHER. Kobe and Shaq had to adjust to their new roles within the team, as does Francis. He's having trouble switching between passing mode and scoring mode, especially during the same game. He'll learn in time, then he'll be unstoppable.

The Logo's only clear good move was bringing in Shaq, everything else is debatable.

Look at their team now. Tell me they wouldn't rather have Van Exel and Jones, than Horry and Fisher. The Lakers just show how two good players, playing well together, can take you wherever you want to go.

Besides, Van Exel and Jones are notorious for not playing defense. Many nights it seems that's the only thing Mobley and Griffin do well.

Keep Mobley and Griffin.

Have Mobley shoot less (maybe even move him to 6th man, like Van Exel on the Mavs if you REALLY want to get a defensive role player SG, which I think its a terrible idea).

Griffin will get better. He's going to have a breakout season sometime these next few years, why drop him for some crap now? It's not like he's terrible; in fact, he fits very nicely into the quiet role player as it is. I have a feeling he'll be much more than that though as he starts to develop.

 

MManal,

Unfortunately, I agree that the chances of getting Payton are slim.

Our only hope, I think, is if the Bucks want to go young, or youngER, and take on some players that will better balance their team. Look at this:

Johnson/Gadzuric
Anthony Mason/Jason Caffey
Tim Thomas/Desmond Mason/Toni Kukoc
Gary Payton/Micheal Redd/Desmond Mason
Sam Cassell/Gary Payton

I think Kelvin Cato would be VERY appealing to these guys, provided we take on either Anthony Mason or Jason Caffey.

I think, to get it done, we'd have to offer something like this:

Cato
Mobley
Eddie Griffin
Rice

for

Anthony Mason
Gary Payton
Their choice of Redd or Mason

Basically, they're swapping their least favourite of Redd and mason for Mobley. Then, they're swapping Mason with Cato, and getting Eddie Griffin to be their PF. So far, it's a HUGE plus for them. As for Rice, I think he MAKES this deal. Why? Because, the return on this trade goes down to Griffin (4M), Mobley (6M) and Cato (7.8M I think). Griffin has 2 years, Mobley 3, and Cato 3. If you ask me, they'[re in pretty good shape to make the playoffs easily, as well as being halfway re-built:

Cato/Ervin Johnson
Griffin/Caffey
Tim Thomas/Glen Rice
Mobley/Redd or Mason
Cassell

With Rice and Kukoc removing a combined 17M off their cap the following season, I think they're in pretty DAMN good financial shape, and their rebuilding is almost done.

Ming/A. Mason
MoT/A. Mason
Desmond Mason/Boki
Francis
Payton

I think both teams come off well.

Thoughts?

 

Okay, Cabezon has got me interested in this thread again (you too Rileydog )

Ditto totally on how Shaq and Bryant were going to be great no matter what. I don't think you can find any reasonable person to disagree with that. Shaq was ALREADY great, for crying out loud. He had already been to the Finals, and was FIRST TEAM ALL-NBA in '98. The notion that Eddie Jones, Campbell, and NVE were actually HOLDING HIM BACK is r-i-d-i-c-u-l-o-u-s.

Ditto also on how the Lakers show you that having two great players can take you anywhere you want to go. Have you seen their lineup lately? Mark FREAKING Madsen? Who the hell is Pargo, by the way? Are you telling me they wouldn't KILL to have Campbell and NVE over Madsen and Pergo, er, Prego, er...what's his name again? Who the hell are these guys? Medvedenko? Devean George? You think they wouldn't rather have Eddie Jones over DEVEAN GEORGE? The fact that they have a shot at a championship with this lineup just shows how good their two big guns are. To think they only got that good because they got rid of other players is crazy. THEY WERE GOING TO BE GOOD ANYWAY.

On the 'slasher' thing. Riley, I still think Kenny Smith's game changed more than you give him credit for. Robert Horry and Vernon Maxwell were also 'slashers'. Otis Thorpe was a back-to-the-basket guy, like Hakeem (you could argue that he also 'needed the ball' like Campbell - he certainly wasn't known for defense). It ALL worked because of Hakeem. When you have a guy that good (like we hope Ming will be), it all seems to work out okay.