ClutchFans Game Thread: Mavericks @ Rockets 11/1/2013

its so nice to see the highlights early on espn and NBAtv. i remember in years past we would have to wait damn near an hour just to see them.

 

Dwight and James are big time

 

Awesome game, great win.

Can't say there was one player that stood out as really bad tonight. Parsons needs to wake up, but it's still early and his somewhat subpar play hasn't hurt us too bad yet.

But I gotta say it is amazing the hypocrisy that goes on around here. The other night in a win, Lin fans were lining up to give their opinion and criticisms of Hardens somewhat rough game.

Tonight in a win, people have something to say about Lins turnovers and Lin fans get so damn defensive.

Can't say I'm surprised thought. Anyway, on to the next one. Juck the fazz

 

Because comparing Lin to CP3 is ridiculous. CP puts up linsanity like play for an entire season. Not just a 6-7 streak of games against most of which were really bad teams in the league other than 1-2 teams.

Both good players, but both should never be compared or mentioned in the same sentence.

Like others have said, the media rode Lins nuts so hard during linsanity he should have had blue balls. Like said above, he was worshiped by the media. I think thats part of the mistake they made, because people till this day still want to expect that kind of play and think he's capable of doing that constantly.

 

Feel free to check out Chris Paul's stats for 2012-2013... you will note he fluctuates from 0/1 turnovers to as high as 7 turnovers per game (these are from his career). Exactly how many times does he have games like he did the other night where 6 TOs would be excused? He has as many as 4-7 TOs for many of his games, and his stats are NO WHERE near the other night's. In fact, half of his games his stats are SIMILAR to Lin's, but you don't hear complaints about his TO's.

If you look at his stats for 2012-2013, he has one game where he has 7 TOs and only 11 pts. He has at least 26 games where he's got at least 3 TOs or more. But of course we know CP3 is an above average athlete, so stats don't say everything about what he brings to a game.

Let's look at Nash's numbers, you'll see that for 2012-2013, he has similiar number of turnovers to CP3, with many more instances of games with 5-7 TOs. If you also look at his early career, he has a 2:1 assist to turnover ratios for his FIRST SEVEN years of his career.

Know what Lin's stats are so far, from the last 2 years? He's averaging a 2:1 assist to turnover ratio too. Technically, he's on par with Nash's development so far. Plus we all know Lin has tremendous upside (you can see it in his game this year, a VAST improvement, and greater control compared to last year, with higher confidence).

I realize you don't have anything else to complain about because he's upgraded his game, so you can't knock his shooting, you can't say he doesn't drive left, you can't say he doesn't play defense, and it's been acknowledged league-wide, media-wide, and fanbase-wide, that his facilitation is much better than Bev's. So the only thing you can knock is his TO's despite leading us to a 20 point lead while getting those TO's.

You did notice that when his TO's lessened, it meant he was playing under control, not pushing the tempo, not taking risky plays to push the tempo, and then the Rocket's offense stalled. That's not ironic, because if you look at Nash and CP3's individual stats on a game by game basis, their BEST games are the ones where they have more TO's, but their stats were higher, and their teams won. Where they had 0/1 TO's, their teams lost, and their stats suck.

Why is that? Because if you have a gift PG like Lin, he's going to take more risks to push the tempo and score for high reward easy baskets, which we saw many of. But to take those risks, you also risk turning the ball over. He had more successful results form his risks than his turnovers (he had four assists AND 3 steals to his 6 turnovers, a positive), as evidenced by the better ball movement.

Like CP3 and Nash, when Lin isn't taking risks, he's not pushing the tempo, the Rockets aren't getting easy transition baskets, and the offense bogs down. There are good and bad TOs. The good TOs are the ones that occur when you try to thread the needle, push the tempo, push that ball foward for fast breaks. In most cases, the high risk decisions paid off, forcing the Mavs on the defensive and getting the Rockets running. The bad TOs occur when you're just being lazy, walking the ball up and losing it, or they occur not because you're pushing the ball or trying to accomplish an opportunity to score.

I can live with Lin's TO's as long as he's being aggressive, I couldn't live with them if they occurred because of him being passive. I ask you this, would you rather have Lin (or even Bev) have 10 TO's and the team blow out the other team, or would you rather Lin (or Bev) have 0-2 TOs and the game is closer or we lose the game?

 

hope casspi ankle be ok. get well soon my Jewish brother.

 

Isn't he Egyptian?

 

Just saying Reggie Jackson had 7 TOs and Kevin Durant had 4.

 

0 / 8 = clinic too

 

CP3 run the pick n roll with blake, CP3 always have the ball in his hand. Thats why he put up big numbers. he got the green light.

If CP3 with the Rockets, he probably hands the ball to harden and stand in the corner shoot 3's. his stat probably won't be that big.

 

- A 2:1 turnover ratio is very average and is absolutely nothing to brag about. Outright giving the ball to the other team for every two good plays you make means you're pretty much breaking even on the net benefit of your passes. Lin's playmaking when he isn't turning it over is superb, but it doesn't excuse his consistent sloppiness. Those turnovers hurt.

- You point out CP3's ratios which generally hover around a godly 4-1 like you're making some kind of point. People don't care if CP3 has 8 TO's in a game because his very large body of work suggests this to be a fluke. Lin doesn't have the benefit of the doubt because his past play (not his race, bias, McFail, blah blah) hasn't justified it.

- Steve Nash is an exception. Please stop comparing Nash and Lin when the only strong comparison between the two is their playmaking out of the PNR. Also, the Steve Nash that had a 2:1 TO-Assist ratio was very much an average PG. His MVP ratios are much, much better.

 

My gawd, James ball so Harden is the best 2 in the league and we're talkin about Lin's TO's?

Asik despite fouling out was great tonight. Is it just me or the game gets really awkard and slow when Hack-a-Dwight starts happening. They need to change the rules.

 

Are you kidding me?

 

Nah, getting famously laid is probably what's killing his stroke.

 

Another thing people need to realize when defending Lins turnover numbers is his usage rate.

Bringing up CP3 and comparing his TO numbers to Lin is not an apples to apples comparison. CP3 completely dominates the ball in their system, Lin does not completely dominate the ball in our system.

During Linsanity with the amount he was controlling the ball those high turnovers were somewhat expected. It's basically a given that the more you have the ball the more you are going to turn it over. It's the reason many of the leagues superstars lead the league in turnovers from year to year.

When you take this into consideration Lin as a Rocket tends to turn the ball over at a pretty high clip for his usage rate. I agree that not all his turnovers are bad and for him to feel comfortable playing his game we have to accept his turnovers, but comparing his turnover numbers to guys who completely dominate the ball is just stupid. Harden dominates the ball on our team, not Lin.

 

Preach it. Linsanity had his way and didn't get 20-25 minutes per game. Chris Paul has more time on the floor. But yes he is a better player of course.

 

No. They lost to Minnesota. Kevin Love is playing like his all star self.

 

Did we have more transition points tonight compared to game 1?

 

The hate is strong.

 

Loved that the Rockets got the win, hated the way the Mavs played, growing hatred of Dirk.

Love this team, top to bottom, and love that they support each other and are slowly working out the wrinkles in their game chemistry. This coming 4 in 5 is going to be rough, but I believe that they can pull through!

(Though knock on wood for less injuries because omfg.)