Whew. I just gave him a link on the Keyhole system, and he goes into a diatribe about an orbit that they don't use... Whatever. Keep thinking that the government has some supersecret omnipresence eyes in the sky that see all and allow them to know all. It's your life. Deckard: We've had Tomahawks since 1979 I think. Some were used in the 86 raids - their first use in combat, I believe. One flew into his window, killing some of his family members, his baby daughter included. As for occupying Iraq, that is a necessary inconvenience that in no way is meant to be permanent. When they have a stable, reliable, nonhostile regime in place, we will leave. We do not want to be there any longer than we have to, but for at least the short term, we do have to be there. What doesn't compute?
Where is Glynch, our lovable token toe the left guy? Treeman & Glynch are like Crossfire....lol. Of course CNN has made a total joke of itself by Mr. Jordan's total lack of judgement. Funny how the naysayers now can only rely on rhetoric and hang on to "Its my right to disagree and voice my anti government opinion"......Yes it is!!! And some of you people still don't understand why it is and what it takes to protect it.
good info glowing thru this one...keep it up guys.. only one thing I feel like I can contribute here.. I did some research for the other thread about hezbollah, and nowhere did I see any reference to them being allied with Libya, only Syria and Iran. Did I miss something or was that just an unfounded assumption? Not being snitty, I really want to know.
From the CIA world factbook: Basically, Qadhafi is a complete and total nut in the true sense of the word. He used to be known for bizarre mood swings and tangental flights of paranoia. This from a former CIA analyst On more than one occasion I've seen quotes about "they must have upped the dossage on his meds." when he says something mildly coherent. So, The short answer here is that he is not ideologically linked with Hezbollah, starting in the late 70's through the early 90's he basically decided that he was friends with anybody that was a terrorist, be they the IRA, the PLO, Hezbollah, the Sandinistas, or anybody else that wanted to blow stuff up. This "friendship" involved bankrolling the causes and setting up safe training havens for these groups. Almost all of the terrorism in the world in the 80's had some connection to Libya. In the mid 90's he sort of decided to "lay low" and the terrorists moved to Afghanistan, or the Sudan, or Somalia, or wherever.
A question for you. Do you think people's right to disagree with the govt. is now more secure because of the war? I would argue that it it isn't changed or it's being contested by war supporters who've done things like burn down cleaners with the name 'French' in the title.
Here's a great Qadafism, from http://www.qadhafi.org Muammar Al-Qadafi Exposes the CIA role in Creating & Spreading AIDS The Libyan revolutionary leader, Col. Muammar Al-Qadhafi, exposed the role of the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) in the origin of HIV/AIDS and the spread of the virus throughout the world. "The issue today, which no one dares address, is the origin of the virus; namely who created HIV/AIDS. The door is totally closed. Even experts and doctors present here in Abuja have not addressed that ticklish and very hot issue," Muammar Al-Qadhafi observed. Speaking in Abuja, Nigeria, at the closing ceremony of the African summit on HIV/AIDS, tuberculosis and other infectious diseases, the Libyan leader noted that "CIA laboratories had lost control over the virus which was tested on black Haitian prisoners. And it's not Qadhafi who says so, but this is a truth divulged by scientists." Col. Qadhafi rejected "the notion" according to which the disease was caused by monkeys from Africa as "utterly false and baseless". "Our monkeys have always lived with us while the disease only emerged in the last two decades. It's a recent disease that dates back to the 1980s". The Libyan leader also accused capitalist companies of engaging in "odious trade" by sacrificing the lives of sufferers of HIV/AIDS and other infectious diseases to make maximum profits. He further accused those companies of prolonging the life of the virus and delaying the marketing of drugs in a bid to gain more profits at the expense of the millions of persons victimised by the pandemic. He did not rule out the possibility that major western pharmaceutical companies and firms end up formulating an efficient vaccine and a treatment for that virus. But, he said, "they have preferred to exploit this human catastrophe worldwide in order to enrich themselves". Col. Qadhafi accused western countries of "spending billions of dollars on weapons of massive destruction which kill hundreds of thousands of people while relatively little money is being spent on AIDS control". These capitalists, he insisted, "seem to take some pleasure in seeing us suffer". And the Libyan leader emphasised that "HIV/AIDS is not a disease strictly confined to Africa. On the contrary, he said, it's a pandemic that strikes the whole planet even if it develops quicker in Africa because of poverty, debts and other social evils colonialists have plunged us into". Col. Qadhafi urged African states to primarily rely on themselves and on their own means to fight the AIDS pandemic. Africa, he said, should "assume its responsibilities with courage and save its riches including diamonds, gold, oil, gas, fruits, water to find the necessary drugs and save its sons". "Africa is today on the right track. It has started, with the coming into force of the African Union, its historic march for progress and development", Brother Qadhafi added.
I can accept that he may have agreed with Islamic Jihad(hezbollah) in who they were striking, but he never directly financed or trained them..that was all on Syria and Iran. just wanted to clear that up....Quaddafi has been mightly quiet these days...seems he may love to talk bad about us, but he doesn't dare strike against us for fear of another missile in his backyard. almost seems to give some credence to what tree was saying about them respecting force...et al..
Quaddafi's been in power for 34 years & he's still only a Colonel, you'd think he would've been promoted to General by now. I have no idea why we didn't respond militarily after Libyan Intelligence was directly linked to the Pan Am 103 bombing...anyone have any info/rationale why?
Treeman, we didn't use Tomahawks during operation El Dorado Canyon. We used a mix of 5 EF111 Raven ECM's and 24 FB111 strike aircraft from Britain, which had to add 1300 nautical miles each way to their trip, courtesy of the French, and a mixture of A6's, etc. from carriers in the Med. If we used Tomahawks it's still a state secret, as far as I know. What didn't compute for me was the scenario of invade and occupy Iraq, not knowing how long we will be there (although we all hope it's a short time, obviously), and selling this to the Arab world and the region as a means of being able to remove our bases in the Mideast. That may ulimately happen, but to suggest that it's a sure thing, or that the other countries in the area are going to buy that idea at this time is a stretch of some proportions, imo.
Interesting seeing a thread about this from a year ago, Sam. Thanks. I remember it. I had hell finding the info on the El Dorado Canyon raid... not being remotely near the same ballpark as Mango in that regard. At least I seem to be reasonably consistant. I couldn't understand then why we were going into Iraq. I still can't.
