On further review of your post MManal... This is not what happened at all at crunch time. We were doing a pick n roll with Bullard/Mobley, over and over. The baseline was never going to come into play, anymore than Stockton could get trapped on the baseline. MManal, are you interested in helping me spot things? Can we get our terminology consistent, because we aren't talking close to one another right now, but probably are closer than we sound. Tell me what you call 2 Shakes. And tell me when you call a double of that a "trap".
I remember twice Mobley split the double team and had Collie open on the wing for a 15 footer but he went to the hole instead and forced up a bad shot both times. It seemed after Collie missed a couple of shots, they lost confidence in him. You never heard of a fake trap? ------------------ In order to be a success in life, you need 2 things: 1. Don't tell everything you know.
People, All I am saying is that the MAIN thing wrong with our team right now is that the guards are not making the right read often enough. They are trying too hard to be the hero and not trusting their teamates. I truly believe that the Boston game was an aberation, and that we started out shooting poorly and our YOUNG guards panicked and went JUCO on the floor. HP, I am not interested in finding the current goat, but usually post about mistakes that I have found repeatedly. I do agree that we are relying less on 2 shakes and this is part of the growing and maturation process of this team. Now if we can just get them to trust their teamates ALL the time, then we have a playoff contender. DaDakota PS. A pick and roll can be faked, the player goes to set a pick and then back cuts to an open spot, happens all the time, especially when the defense has seen the PnR more then once. ------------------ If Mankind evolved from Monkeys and Apes, then why are there still Monkeys and apes?
BoB*, we didn't say Fake trap...we said fake pick. Mobley split the trap of the pnr twice in the second...both times he was fouled. Both times I fell out of my chair dumbfounded he would even attempt that. Tape anyone?!
ps...DaD, you cannot "fake" that pnr until your defender committed to trap or switch! Otherwise, nothing happend and you are still in standard man-to-man. Thus it is a response to the defenders, and not a "fake". Maybe it is just semantics, but when what you do is a response, how can that be a "fake". just a ping-ponging point of order...your turn DaD.
what trap are we talking about. I thought MManal was talking about doubling a PnR--trapping it. You don't "see" that coming; it is just THERE! You have 4 men in close proximity, and the trap pinches the passing lane. I didn't think he was talking about trapping the 2 Shakes, because we didn't run that against Boston (of course, I might have been snoozing when one happened...what a bad game). Back to topic. MManal, on the trap of the PnR, I saw the roller leave too soon a couple of times. That is a lazy pick, and leaves Mobley instantly smothered by two defenders. Did you see that?
HP, There are 2 types of picks, a real one and a fake one, both work effectively if they are performed correctly. If you go to set a screen, and roll early, and your defender does not go with you, then it is the guards job to recognize this and get the ball to the open player. If you want to see GREAT execution of the pick and roll, watch the Utah Jazz, they run it to perfection. There are several ways to defend it, and perhaps the Rockets just need to see all of those defenses a few times to get used to them. I am sure other teams will look at the Celtics tape to see what it is they did. The main thing I thought was the BIGGEST problem was that the Rockets did not shoot well as a team, all of the shots were not contested, and some nights the WHOLE team shoots poorly. On nights like those, I think Rudy should have gone deeper into his bench to see if someone else could ignite a spark, ala Langhi. DaDakota ------------------ If Mankind evolved from Monkeys and Apes, then why are there still Monkeys and apes?
HP, lets clear up some of this terminology. I am going to try to throw some x's and o's into this post even tho its going to look brutally ugly, bear with me though. When you said you refer to 2 Shakes as only the purest guard iso, do you mean this type of overload 1-4 set? (Disregard the dotted lines, thats the only way I could get the x's to stay on the other side) ---------------------x ---------------------x ---------------------x -------------------x x If thats all 2 Shakes means then they did not run that at the end of the Indy game. However, what I did notice at the end of the Indy game is that they ran a 2-3 set with iso which is something they do sometimes now. x -------------------x -------------------x -------------------x G What happens on this is that the weakside corner man comes over to trap the guard at a diagonal. I marked the guard with a G to clarify that it is a guard. I dont consider that p-n-r b/c the guard is not receiving a screen. What was happening at the end of the Indy game was that the guard would notice the trapper coming from that man in the right corner and would dribble a little to the right so as not to get trapped and swing it to his first teammate who would then shoot or swing it to the second. The Rockets dont go as much 1-4 iso as they used to, but they do a 2-3 set now that is not always a screen and roll set. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net [This message has been edited by MManal (edited November 25, 2000).] [This message has been edited by MManal (edited November 25, 2000).]
One other thing.... HP, are you saying that if the ball handler draws a double team on the screen and roll that he cant kick it out to the big man that rolls away to the baseline? Thats the whole pt of running the screen and roll; if the defense congests the part with the ball, then a big man is open on the wing. Good screen and roll players can pass out of that traffic. If you are saying that Collier wide open in the corner cannot receive the ball b/c his man and Cuttino's are man are on Cuttino, then we have some serious problems. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
