Official 2013 Budget/Debt Limit/Obamacare Crisis Thread

It's been 2 days man. Don't press the panic button just yet.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57605822/poll-americans-not-happy-about-shutdown-more-blame-gop/

Kind of peculiar:
76% say dems should compromise
78% say repubs should compromise


blame game:
Republicans in Congress 44%
Barack Obama & Democrats 35%
Both equally 17 %
Don’t know/No Answer 4%

 

I'm talking about the debt ceiling, not the government shutdown. And no its not too early to panic on the debt ceiling.

 

The debt ceiling is another debate though. The whole debate right now is the budget, not the debt ceiling.

I'm talking about Congress not this thread.

 

Treasury securities are viewed as risk free. It has basically been the standard for decades that the US will pay its bills no matter what. There was not even a hint of uncertainty until the last debacle in which the unthinkable suddenly became a possibility, due to the radicals in the congress.

It is not just "paying your debts" it is the perception of "they are going to pay their debts no matter what". This hostage taking put doubts into the minds of the rating agencies and it is very possible this could lead to further downgrades.

This is absolutely the wrong time to play politics. The president simply cannot negotiate here and open the door for this to happen again. This cannot continue.

If bringing up the vote causes Bohener his job, that is his problem and an internal problem of the Republican Party.

 

There has been no discussion about not continuing to pay our debts. Republicans have repeatedly say we would continue to pay our debts. This is Democrats trying to make a something out of a whole lot of nothing.

 

This is not true. I don't know where you get your news but Republicans, on multiple occasions, have suggested that they would demand concessions in exchange for raising the debt ceiling.

 

In fact, they've not said otherwise at all. Every comment they've made about the debt ceiling is that they will demand something or other, ranging from spending cuts to Obamacare delays.

 

From the "you can't make this stuff up file"

Republicans to investigate why their shutdown caused memorials to be shut down

House Republicans continue to be outraged about the fact that, when they shut the government down, even the parts that they liked got shut down. Specifically, various memorials in the nation's capital, led of course by the World War II Memorial. Naturally, being outraged Republicans, they're prepared to spend more time and energy investigating why the memorials are closed than attempting to reopen the whole government and the monuments right along with it.

 

Really, it is an Orwellian masterpiece. They photo ops and theater are near hilarious.

This is likely playing very well in the echo-chamber. They get to make themselves look like heroes while they undermine the benefits their constituents would other wise be getting.

 

Maybe they didn't know monuments are "non-essential". Whoops!

 

No offense, but I am not sure you are grasping the big picture here.

 

They are a minority. They + Tea Party = Majority in the House. The Tea Party ISN'T really a Republican, in fact, some of them (or maybe many) dislike being called a Republican. Tea Party is the extreme of the extreme Right and the Republican has so far absorbed them. That small minority monster that they have absorbed is killing the overall picture of what used to be SANE and respectable Republicans.

You haven't heard that they want to hold default hostage for Obamacare (or whatever else they decided to come up later)? This is NOT new info. It happened before with the grand bargain that became the sequester. Unfortunately, because Obama decided to negotiate under the threat of default, it has legitimize this practice and the Republican is playing the same game again. I'm not talking about budget and shutdown - that's relatively minor in the big picture of what to come. That's might bring us back into a recession if it lasted a few months. A default is a whole different monster that you simply shouldn't fk around with. I am for -- now and forever establish that you do NOT negotiate under a threat of default from members of your own countrymen. Stop this insane practice of pointing a gun at yourself over and over.

Glad to hear report that Boehner will not let the US default.

 

Boner is popping under the pressure......

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/04/us/politics/debt-limit-impasse.html?_r=0

Republicans Say Boehner Vows to Avert Federal Default

With a budget deal still elusive and a deadline approaching on raising the debt ceiling, Speaker John A. Boehner has told colleagues that he is determined to prevent a federal default and is willing to pass a measure through a combination of Republican and Democratic votes, according to multiple House Republicans.

One lawmaker, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said Mr. Boehner had indicated he would be willing to violate the so-called Hastert Rule if necessary to pass a debt-limit increase. The informal rule refers to a policy of not bringing to the floor any measure that does not have a majority of Republican votes.

A spokesman for Mr. Boehner pushed back on the idea that the speaker would try to pass a debt-limit increase mainly with Democratic votes, but acknowledged that the speaker understood the need to head off a default.

“The speaker always, always prefers to pass legislation with a strong Republican majority,” said Michael Steel, a spokesman for Mr. Boehner.

 

All this talk about who's at fault... Are the active D&D posters any more capable of compromising than politicians we criticize? I wonder if we could take even 1 issue that's notoriously split(Abortion, Healthcare, etc), and reach even a preliminary agreement in a way that our leaders also fail to do.

 

healthcare probably. We need a common sense look at this, and I think it could be done.

abortion? hell no. History will not be kind to the era of abortion. With continued scientific advancement, it will be considered a barbaric crime to abort...

 

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Can I burn down your house?

No

Just the 2nd floor?

No

Garage?

No

Let's talk about what I can burn down.

No

YOU AREN'T COMPROMISING!</p>&mdash; Judd Legum (@JuddLegum) <a href="https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/statuses/385468973971951616">October 2, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

Okay, I'll ask again; do you think Rep Issa's idea has any merit? Letting everyone have access to the same healthcare as congress?

 

I think abortion can still go either way in the future. Personally, I have no moral opposition to it. It's more of a last resort option in my mind, while contraceptives are what really need more support.

What I mean by possibly going either way is that society could still adopt a more "Machiavellian" stance on the issue. Continued scientific enlightenment often leads to more object views being widely accepted. Resource availability is a prime example of a quantifiable factor that affects a societies position on whether or not ends justify means.