No, I'm not saying that Steve should necesssarily make the playoffs this year. But I did expect to see some imporvement in his major weaknesses. He has improved his scoring and efficiency, and that's great. But he hasn't made any progress in being a point guard, in running the fast break, in cutting down his bad decisions, or in making his teammates better. And if you don't want to compare him to Dunacn and Garnett, then how about Iverson, McGrady and Pierce. Yeah, McGrady and Pierce are taller, but they are guards who look to shoot first and handle the ball the majority of the time. If Steve is a great player, then he should be compared to them.
The Rockets would have been in the playoffs in the East two years ago and this year, and two years ago they would have been a fairly high seed. They only lost one game to those so called dominant Eastern talents, McGrady, and Iverson. So that argument doesn't hold water either.
Correct, Stevie is a good.....but not great player. He still can become one, but isn't currently. And Please, let's not compare the Magic to the Rockets. McGrady is just now getting Gooden, other than that, he's had no one that was/is consistent down low. -We have Yao and Cato, who has become an excellent backup. -We have the offense skills of MoTaylor -Unless you consider Giricek a better player than Mobley, then Stevie has that advantage as well. Hell, even our scrubs like Eddie Griffin are better than Declerq. Trade Tmac for Stevie and you'll see a difference.
If you are referring to my previous post, how good was Steve's supporting cast two years ago? Shandon Anderson, Cuttino, Hakeem and Cato, and MoTaylor. That ain't greatness folks.
Francis is just good not great (at least not yet). But my take on this discuss has nothing to do with the reasons the person who started this thread (which I believe is silly). Greatness is a word that is thrown around this culture like a cheap underwear. Greatness should be reserved for a only a handful. It cannot be reached only by putting up stats. It cannot be achieved through hype. It cannot be faked. In my book, the following players are those I classify as great; Duncan Garnet Shaq Kobe T-Mac Vince Carter Nowitzki Payton Stockton Mallone Jkidd And maybe one or two more players. The next class is the one Steve falls into. I like to call the "The Very Good" Class. This class include the likes of (and not limited to); Jermaine O'neal Webber Nash Finley Starbury Rasheed Marion Mashburn Peja Stojakovic BDavis Iverson (tough call) Steve Francis (like I highlighted above) Paul Pierce Antwan J Antoine Walker Alan Houston Sprewell Stackhouse Gasol Bibby Rashad Lewis SAR Elton Brand Tonio Mcdyess Ray Allen The Good Class is where you will find most NBA players and it houses the following players; Yao Ming Z Richard Hamilton Nene Kirilinko Boozer Penny Amare Stoudarmire Mobley Jason terry Gilbert Arenas Horry Motay Kurt Thomas etc. Please me fellow forumers, lets preserve the sanctity of the word GREAT by refraining from the indiscriminate use and abuse of it.
Please, the reason we won 45 games that season and came so close to making the playoffs is because Hakeem was trying to earn a contract and was playing at a high level consistently for the second half of the season. We also had one of the better records against the eastern conference that year. Sorry, but we have a supporting cast here this year. A better one than McGrady's and Garnett's. Simply put, he's not a franchise player, and I think anyone that has been watching basketball for he past couple of years knows this. Reason why we won't be making the playoffs this year, but will MAYBE next year ONLY by default.......someone has to take Utah's spot.
Hakeem played well for about fifteen games, the fact is Steve was the best player on that team, and I hate to pull out the obligatory idiot reference, but that's my point idiot, Steve and the Rockets dominated Eastern Conference teams. McGrady, Iverson, Pierce, they play in the ugh, Eastern Conference. That's the whole point. Those are the players you named. Steve's teams dominated their's. And if your argument is Hakeem was the reason, well then that works for the pro-Steve argument, because I guess he proved he could play with a big man that year also. now for the obligatory
Fegwu, if that is how you classify Greats and Very Goods by your list, then I agree with you. Steve would be Very Good in your standard. But I don't know about Allen Iverson or Antonio McDyess. I think AI shoul be Great by your standards...and Antonio McDyess shouldn't be Very Good. He should be just good. John Stockton and Vince Carter aren't that great anymore. They're still very good though.
Tonio was down graded because of his injury problems and the Denver factor. A descent 2003-2004 season for NY should put him back into the top echelon of players. Iverson is a borderline very good-great. He is a fighter, a "warrior", a perenial MVP candidate and an above average go-to guy. But he has not shot efficiently from the field through his career and more importantly he has not been able to make his team mates better consistent like the great ones I listed have until recently.
First off, I didn't make any list. Second, I never said Steve couldn't play with a big man. Third, we did dominate the east THAT YEAR. If you believe that Hakeem only played well for 15 games that second half of the season, then you must not have been watching the Rocket games. If Steve is so great, why hasn't there been any improvement in his game since he was a rookie? Why does he make the same dumb mistakes from a couple years back? Why can't he do $h!t with an above average roster? So stop with the and answer me that.....
Damnit.....can't edit.... The thread states that Francis is 'good', not 'GREAT', and it's the absolute truth. He isn't in the same class as a Ducan or Garnett......unless maybe through the eyes of blinded, die-hard Houston fans.
You're right, that wasn't you who listed, Pierce, McGrady, and Iverson. As far as Duncan and Garnett are concerned, our 6'3" point guard is as good as two 6'11" and 7' franchise powerforwards. Whoopty freakin Doo, if you expect Steve to be as good as those guys, then, you are the one who is blinded. Again, I ask, in the Western Conference, what 6'3" point guard has led his team to the playoffs, being the best player on his team? Its a ridiculous argument to say Steve didn't go to the playoffs yet, so he isn't that great.
Forget East and West. In Steve Francis's 3 years playoffs drought, a 33+ Gary Payton led Sonics to the playoffs in the same period of time. Who was his best teammate last year or the year before? Brent Barry? Or rookie Rashard Lewis? The point remains: a Steve Francis led Houston Rockets are yet to make the playoffs in the Western Conference. If the situation doesn't change, Steve Francis is no way a *great* franchise player.
OK, that argument is crap. Let's break it down, shall we?: 99-00: Francis was a rookie, and his best and only supporting player was Mobley. Certainly not any better than anything Seattle has had lately. And did I mention he was a rookie? Not to mention the Rockets still finished this season very strong... Oh, and Payton wasn't 33+ around here, he was just around his prime in fact. 00-01: Rockets made an amazing run for the final spot with a 16-4 stretch and some impressive wins. This year, the supporting cast was pretty decent, but Olajuwon was still injured much of the year. This was probably the West's most competitive year. Rockets finished with the best record to ever NOT make the playoffs. They still finished a game ahead of your favorite gaurd's team. No gripes here. 01-02: Aaah, the season from the deepest, darkest chambers of hell. Injuries everywhere eventually leading to complete tanking towards the end of the season that payed off well. Francis certainly couldn't've pulled a Payton this year considering he wasn't even playing during the stretch that took us out of the playoff race. This year, Payton would not even be in the playoff race if he weren't in the east (on a team that still has a worse record than the Rockets). If the Rockets were to miss the playoffs again this year, it'd be the only year where you could legitimately complain... but that won't happen.
First. Steve Francis is great. But he is not elite. He does not really make his teammates better. Neither does Kobe...But anyways. We aren't going to make the playoffs either. We need a new coach. Get rid of Mobley and Moochie. Get some athletic,tall,good sharpshooters with good defense. Get some good role players. Try to trade Griffin, Cato, and Rice. Try to develop Nachbar. Try to develop chemistry and create different offenses with Yao and Francis. New coach's job. Keep Francis.
man francis is a freakin superstar. Look at the allstar game he was flawless. iF HIS TEAM WOULD COME THROUGH MORE OFTEN HIS NUMBERS WOULD LOOK MUCH BETTER. buT HIS TEAM JUST DOESNT COME THROUGH. sTEVE IS UP THERE WITH TMAC DUNCAN ADN KOBE. hE IS IN THE TOP 5 PLAYERS IN THE LAGUE WITH OUT A DOUBT. iF HE WAS IN ANOTHER TEAM THEY WOULD USE HIM FOR SCORING AND STILL WOULD GET 8 9 ASSISTS. tHATS WHAT THE ROX NEED TO DO.
If you want to put Stevie in the same class as a Tmac, Kidd, Kobe, Duncan, Garnett, and Shaq.......then by all means, go ahead. I, as well every single GM in the NBA wouldn't. Much of you all say Stevie is a Franchise player, I say he isn't........let's just leave it at that.
