My Positions Against the Positions For Trading Cat

Why people continue to think that the Rockets have any chance of trading Steve in the next three years is beyond me...

 

Here he comes to kick your ass.....

 

sup hydra.

I don't really care who is traded or benched, but I don't want them both on the court for 30+ minutes a game. I don't think either are untouchable for the right deal, but I would of course prefer to keep SF.

Their decision making is just frustrating, to say the least. SF is better than Mobes in that dept imo, but still not at the level I'd like. Neither of their d is that great, and they totally suck at pushing the ball, running the fastbreak, and getting their teamates involved. Part of it could be attributed to the coaching I guess, but mostly I think that's just the way they play. Get some player in here who can take care of the ball and run the break, pass the ball, and play within themselves. A simple roleplayer would do, an Eric Snow, Brent Barry, that clipper pg(the euro), whoever.

Francis/Mobes can dominate the ball in the halfcourt game sometimes, but it wont be a 1-2 punch domination that keeps the other players frozen out and jacking up shots when they get the freakin ball because the shotclock is running out or because they feel it's "their turn" now.

arggh

/rant

 

Hydra--I agree with most all of what you said. I do not think Mobley or our 2 guard is a primary problem for us.

A-train, I assume you are saying this because Steve is a base year player for trade purposes. Can someone explain to me why in 3 years this would not be the case? Does he have to enter the 4th year of a 6 year contract to remove this designation?

Thanks

 

Too much information, but I LOVE the thread title...and the appropriatly following long winded post.

Classic !!

DD

 

Actually, I just used three years as a random number. There is no way that any team will take on a contract the length and dollar amount of Steve's, and some people still fail to recognize that. When it comes down to Steve or Cuttino, Cat will HAVE to go because his contract is much easier to move. The sooner Rockets fans grasp this fact, the better. How many players with $80 million left on their contracts have been traded?? I can't think of one.

Face it, we're "stuck" with Steve, like it or not...

 

I think there is more to than just the amount. If it were just the total amount that can be worked around. Penny, Marbury, Laffrenz, Pippen, Ratliff, McDyess, and Allen were all traded with awefully mega-sized contracts and with multiple years left--and none of them is the player Francis is. Marbury even landed Kidd in the process.

If it was only the total amount, and we were shopping Francis--there would be league wide interest. Francis is a top 12 player in terms of value (age, skill, marketabality). Further, his contract is pretty reasonably actually, by next year there will be more lesser players than him with a max contract (or nearly a max contract) than players better than him (at least in terms of more valuable considering his age and marketability) with such contracts.

I think there is a contract issue that makes Francis so untradable--e.g., his salary doesn't count for what it is worth (base year player designation?). And I don't know how long that remains the case.

 

I like your post StupidMoniker.
Both Cat and Francis should be kept.

 

He Sux!!!

sorry... just felt the need to do that.

 

Put into decent English- Mobley is not a team player, he does not accept his role as a role player, he dosent accept that the team is no longer a Guard oriented team but is moving towards a Center dominated team. He has great difficulty in accepting the new format of pass to Yao Ming!

 

"Cat is a little quicker in deciding whether to make a move or pass on to another teammate."

Good post. It was not too much information. It was perfect. But "Cat is a little quicker in deciding whether to make a move or pass on to another teammate."??? I don't think so. He usually holds the ball as long as he can. He is unaware of anyone around him. He always does the same exact thing every time. And if he gets stuck, he just passes it in desperation. BUT...he is good. He is one of the top 10 shooting guards in the NBA. He can shoot. He can drive. He cannot pass. He can play defense if he tries.

Francis is not leaving. He and Yao are going to stay.

I do not think Francis or Mobley will be traded in the offseason. They will probably both stay on the Rockets.

If we could trade, we need to be getting some good players in return. There are many different trade proposals. But if we do trade, we will need to get another guard. BECAUSE MOOCHIE SUCKS. He cannot play. I don't want him on our team. If we do make a trade, he should be included.

Eric Snow...we cannot get. Brent Barry...we cannot get. Jon Barry would be great. Marko Jaric would be nice too.

If we can get the right coach, he should be able to change the players and make our team better. We have enough talent. It could be better to get more. But we definitely need a new coach.

 

While I agree Cuttino is a better defender, I think his defense has been underrated for awhile to the point it's become overrated. Francis is a poor defender, yes, but Cuttino IMO is an average to slightly above average defender, not the all-world defender that his defense compared to Steve's would have you believe. Also IMO, Steve is the better spot up shooter- this is one of the bigger points to me, Cat just hasn't been as effective simply playing off the ball and knocking down the open spot up shots he receives.

I agree you don't give a guy like Cuttino away- for his frustrating faults, he still is in the upper echelon in terms of pure scoring ability. However, it's silly to think any package involving Cuttino (that does not also include Steve or Yao) will be able to land a
"superstar like KG or Duncan". For example, I'd trade him straight up in a sign and trade for Odom- while I don't want to get this thread in a train wreck about Odom, I feel more than necessarily a point guard, we need a creator for others- which Odom fills perfectly. Personally, with Odom I think you can leave Francis at the "1", and bring in your Piatkowski/Jon Barry/etc. at the 2.

I heartily disagree with the premise that Steve will still dominate the ball as the 2 guard, and his "struggles" if he is the off guard. Look at the New Jersey game- Steve did not dominate the ball when Moochie was in the game, Moochie did. And while it was an embarassing loss, I took 2 things from it- Moochie still sucks, and Francis scored his 20+ with relative ease, "despite" playing a large number of minutes at the off guard.

If you can trade Steve for Elton Brand, then turn Griffin and/or Taylor into a "real" PG (if they land Kidd, see what Parker would cost)

To put it in simplest terms, a team built around Yao Ming does not need 2 guards playing 40 MPG whose best talents are scoring on their own. Thus, one must be moved. In general, you keep the better talent, which is clearly Steve. However, if you get the superstud for superstud offers for Francis, that has to be considered.

 

I would love to trade Mobley for Odom straight up! But the Clippers would not. Mobley is slightly...SLIGHTLY better than Lamar Odom. I would rather have Odom though. Of course, it is pretty much impossible to get someone like Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett. But Elton Brand may be different. He is on the Clippers. And they are not sure if they want him or not. If Yao is staying, we need good role players. But we need a good coach who can assign roles and actually has a system and a plan.

"Personally, with Odom I think you can leave Francis at the "1", and bring in your Piatkowski/Jon Barry/etc. at the 2." YES!!! Perfect...

I would rather have Barry over Piatkowski. That means we would have three creators on our team. Francis...Barry...and Odom. That would be great. But Jon Barry cannot play 42 minutes like Cuttino Mobley. And his defense is not that great either. We would need someone else...

So Cuttino Mobley for Lamar Odom? Would it work?

 

Actually, if we lost Mobley, Posey could play shooting guard.

Trade Cuttino Mobley and Bostjan Nachbar for Lamar Odom and Chris Wilcox.
They will want Mobley because he is fairly cheap and is one of the top 10 shooting guards in the NBA. Bostjan Nachbar is also cheap and has a lot of potential. He will get plenty of time to develop. And he could be awesome with Elton Brand.
We want Lamar Odom because he is one of the top small forwards in the NBA. He can pass. He can shoot. He is tall and athletic.
They add Chris Wilcox in just to make the trade balanced. Chris Wilcox will give us another big man who can be developed along with Eddie.

Then we sign James Posey for about $3 million if he is loyal.
And we can also sign a good roleplaying backup guard like Jon Barry as a midlevel exception.

Steve Francis - Moochie Norris - Tito Maddox
James Posey - Jon Barry - Juaquin Hawkins
Lamar Odom - Glen Rice - Terence Morris
Eddie Griffin - Maurice Taylor - Chris Wilcox
Yao Ming - Kelvin Cato - Jason Collier

Then again...some analysts say that we will be the top team in 3 to 4 years with the team we have. So...patience?

 

I say trade Eddie Griffin (I hope Sonics are still interested in him) and Cuttino Mobley for Rashard Lewis and Brent Barry (throw in some fillers if the salaries don't match). Do not resign James Posey and sign a free agent power forward like PJ Brown at MLE.

Then, our team would be

PG- Steve Francis
SG- Brent Barry (Barry can handle the ball sometimes to let Steve play off the ball a bit)
SF- Rashard Lewis (Rashard can shoot the ball well)
PF- PJ Brown or Mo Taylor
C- Yao Ming

Now that would be a good team.

 

That's not even close to working salary-cap wise. I think it would work if we also gave up Posey and Collier though, and if we made that trade we may not want Posey anyway.

On a more general note, I'll say again that the only point guard I would trade Mobley for besides Kidd, etc. is Marko Jaric (and I would want another pretty good player thrown in to go with him). In general, though, I'd just as soon hang on to Mobley.

 

PG- Steve Francis
SG- Brent Barry
SF- Rashard Lewis
PF- PJ Brown or Mo Taylor
C- Yao Ming

Our team would be just fine.

But Sonics...
PG - Kevin Ollie
SG - Ray Allen
SF - James Posey or someone else...
PF - Eddie Griffin
C - European Guy

I don't think they would want that, unless they are seriously into rebuilding. We would have to add some draft picks in or something. They would have a good backup shooting guard though. He wouldn't be playing 42 minutes a game behind Ray Allen.

Mobley is slightly better than Barry and Rashard Lewis is much better than Eddie Griffin. We would have to add James Posey or Glen Rice and maybe Jason Collier or Moochie to make it fair. And maybe a draft pick.

But yeah! OUR TEAM WOULD BE AWESOME!!!!

Barry can handle the ball sometimes? He can actually handle the ball pretty well. He's pretty intelligent and I would love him! And of course, Rashard Lewis! Hometown boy. But I don't think the Sonics want to give him up. They are building the team around him. Maybe they will change their mind...

 

Cuttino Mobley and Bostjan Nachbar and try to add Moochie Norris

Traded to Los Angeles Clippers for...

Lamar Odom, Quentin Richardson, and Marko Jaric (or Eric Piatkowski if they want Moochie).

CM - $5.0 million + BN - $1.3 million + maybe MN - $3.6 (if they are willing to take trash) = $6.3 million or ($10.0 million)

LO - (right now earning $3.557 million, but next season, he will be making at least) $5.0 million + QR - $1.174 million + MJ - $1.3 million (or EP - $3.3) = $7.5 million or ($9.5 million)

Cuttino Mobley will be gone! The Clippers will be delighted to get such a great scoring shooting guard. Elton Brand, Andre Miller (if they resign him), and Cuttino Mobley could be a good team...scary.
Bostjan Nachbar has a lot of potential and is a pure shooter. They will give him a lot of playing time.
Moochie will be a fantastic backup point guard for Andre Miller.

Lamar Odom would be a wonderful small forward for the Rockets. He is tall and can pass too. He can also shoot if you want him to.
Quentin Richardson is not as good as Cuttino Mobley, but he is still fairly young and is improving.
Marko Jaric is a point guard who is taller than most. He is intelligent and can pass. He can also score. He and Francis can play together at times.
If not Jaric, then Eric Piatkowski would be good too. Eric is old, but he can shoot and would be a nice backup.

Steve Francis/Moochie Norris
Quentin Richardson/Eric Piatkowski/Juaquin Hawkins
Lamar Odom/James Posey/Glen Rice
Eddie Griffin/Maurice Taylor/Terence Morris
Yao Ming/Kelvin Cato

OR

Steve Francis/Marko Jaric
Quentin Richardson/James Posey/Juaquin Hawkins
Lamar Odom/Glen Rice/Terence Morris
Eddie Griffin/Maurice Taylor
Yao Ming/Kelvin Cato

Maybe James Posey will settle for $3.4 million. And maybe we would have enough for a midlevel exception like Jon Barry or PJ Brown.

All this nice stuff...but first we need a coach.