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We are all Travyon?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Honey Bear, Aug 8, 2013.

  1. mvpcrossxover

    mvpcrossxover Member

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    we are all decoy octopus
     
  2. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    Amaru,


    I can't make an argument as to how you identify yourself, but I can certainly make the case that how the people with which you identify with recognize it and accept it (or more importanly don't) is germane to your expectations in dealing with them and being taken seriously.

    Identifying as Pan-African no more makes you African than Jerry Senfeld identifying as Jewish makes him Israeli. There's an important distinction.

    You are free to call yourself whatever you like, but just as I indentify as non-religious and post-nationalist, when I go to Europe, I have a US passport that says "Place of Birth: Texas, USA" all full of Israeli residency permits and I can't invent a way for that not to be a legal truth when the Lebanese-German customs agent looks me over a second time before he stamps my passport and doesn't say "Welcome to Germany" and mutters "Yahudi" under his breath when I walk away. ;)

    Unfortunately, who you pay your taxes to, what passport you carry, and where you are born matters much more to the world than what you believe. Me or you wanting it not to be so doesn't change that. You are being deliberately obtuse if you dismiss my points as "European constructs." International law and the nation state might very well be European constructs, but they also govern our legal reality whether we like them or not.

    If you want to fight European colonialism, you are unfortunately several centuries too late and if you go to Africa or India looking for the British Army, you'll find they left a long time ago when it became more profitable to exploit the third world in less direct ways.

    I never used the term "Real African," just pointing out with examples that actually growing up in a place and participating in a society is very different than having ancestral ties to a place, no matter how important those ties are, or how informed you are of that culturally, and how much you practice aspects of that culture in your own life.

    Whether you like it or not, we have much more shared culutral currency than you do with Africans or I do with Europeans or Israelis for that matter. Stop and think. We are communicating on a fan site for the Houston Rockets, where we both spend hours of our lives.

    I'm sorry that you dismissed my years of experience with African industry, NGOs and government as both an advisor to the Kimberly Process and as a journalist as irrelevant , but when you refer to the African leaders I spoke of as "we" it's you that's generalizing, not me. I've actually spent time in Africa and actually worked with people in Africa who are the ones with more authority than you or I to say who they are and I am confident telling you that their post-colonial narrative is not inclusive of you. To them, you are a US citizen, a Pan-African US citizen sure, and likely welcome to most of them, but an American nonetheless.

    Until the use of the word "USanian" becomes commonly accepted, we will have to be content to use the word "American" ambiguously both to desribe the continent and the people who live inside the United States of America. I never introduce myself to people as an American. After all, I am a Texan!

    I take a bit of offense to the notion that I invented an African drummer to make a point. There's no point in spending time posting my thoughts and opinions in order to use crass fiction to make a point.I can offer this as proof I'm the old guy on the far left ;)

    If you go there, you'll see my band actually has TWO Africans, as my bass player is originally from Port Elizabeth, South Africa. You probably wouldn't consider a Jewish kid with Polish ancestors to be African, but the Nigerian journalist that interviewed him in Austin certainly did.

    You seem to be making the mistake others sometimes do in the D&D. Discussing things like this doesn't neccesarily have winners and losers, and when you try to "win" it usually makes your original premise weaker.

    There's nothing inherently wrong with having an Afro-centric worldview, but you would accomplish more to call yourself a Pan-African than an African. It's more intellectually honest and doesn't invite ridicule from Africans who would be inclined to disrespect you for doing so, which I would estimate, would be most.
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    Deji is truly trying to help amaru. Props. Amaru is searching for his identify, but has not chosen well.
     
  4. amaru

    amaru Member

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  5. amaru

    amaru Member

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    Deji

    "I've actually spent time in Africa and actually worked with people in Africa who are the ones with more authority than you or I to say who they are and I am confident telling you that their post-colonial narrative is not inclusive of you. To them, you are a US citizen, a Pan-African US citizen sure, and likely welcome to most of them, but an American nonetheless."

    This comment here......reminded me of a fascinating book a read a few years back written by Philippe Wamba called " Kinship: A Family's Journey in Africa and America". The book is an autobiography of sorts in which Mr. Wamba explores the relationship between his "Continental African" and "African-American" family members. He then uses his family to explore the larger them of "African" and "African-American" interactions in the present day. If I remember correctly, the conclusion he reach was (and I'm paraphrasing) that "African-Americans" and "Africans" have countless cultural differences but it is possible for them to bridge these differences and move forward.

    I was interested to see where Mr. Wamba would go with this conclusion in his next book....unfortunately he died in a car accident before he could write another book :(

    (This is fluff....but hey I thought it was interesting so what the hell)
     
  6. tomato

    tomato Member

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    We are all Trayvon. Trayvons come in all shapes and sizes-- yes, even nationalities. amaru is Trayvon. bigtexxx is Trayvon. We are ALL Trayvon.
     
  7. T-mac&Yao=RING

    T-mac&Yao=RING Contributing Member

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    So you do not consider yourself American at all?
     
  8. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    an interesting data point for amaru -- the country whose population most wants to immigrate to the US: Liberia, the nation of freed slaves who went back to Africa.
     
  9. dback816

    dback816 Member

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    You don't need a book to tell you that many individuals on this planet have the capacity to work out their differences and have healthy relationships, just as there are many individuals who cannot or do not wish to do that.

    It's common sense.
     
  10. amaru

    amaru Member

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    No, but I am a U.S. Citizen. The only people I consider 'American' are the descendants of these 2 continents original inhabitants.
     
  11. amaru

    amaru Member

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    Of course.....what I was interested in was the dynamic and the opinions of a well educated man who stood on "both sides of the fence" so to speak.

    I would have been interested to see what solutions he would have brought to the table.
     
  12. amaru

    amaru Member

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    I have done a little research on Liberia......specifically the "Americo-Liberians".

    Sad history to be sure....it will be interesting to see how the indigenous inhabitants and the "Americo-Liberians" work out their differences going forward.

    Also President Ellen Johnson Sirleaf is a remarkable woman. Her autobiography "This Child Will Be Great" was a fascinating read. :)
     
  13. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  14. AroundTheWorld

    Supporting Member

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    What if you are mixed?
     
  15. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet
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    You realize those people came here from Asia, right? In fact, if you go back far enough, everyone is African. Why do you use your particular artificial cutoff (which seems to be based entirely on skin color)? How is it any more valid than where a person is born, or the all African model?
     
  16. amaru

    amaru Member

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    What William Leonard Roberts II actually says on his songs is more like:

    "UGNH"

    :)
     
  17. amaru

    amaru Member

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    That's is where things can start to get confusing.

    IDK what kind of percentages that First Nation people use when attempting to decide if a person is "Native American".....that is their lane, not mine.

    But if you're asking me for my opinion, it would take more than 1 "native american grandmother" in order for me to consider a person a "true american".
     
  18. amaru

    amaru Member

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    But to be completely honest with you....I don't care.

    I'm not a First Nation people, therefore I don't REALLY care how they see themselves or the world.

    :cool:
     
  19. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    We are all African.
     
  20. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Seriously, it's telling amaru that you claim a world of suppression of your people, yet you can not point to any specific solution or source of this suppression or oppression within your country of citizenship.

    Sounds to me, no offense, that you are beating the drum of a bygone era.

    Racism exists yet, but it's something all minorities deal with, not just Africans.
     

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