The case for starting Asik at the 4

The Dwight-Asik front-court is a bad idea offensively against elite defenses in today's game, especially in the playoffs where rotation defense is as intense as it gets. Even the Splitter-Duncan duo wasn't working in the playoffs.

 

Not only it slows down the offense, it makes opponents' defense that much better.

In the offense phase, if Asik is playing near the basket, he's clogging up the lane. If he gets away from the basket to make space for Harden, Lin and Parsons, the man who is covering Asik will stay in the paint because he will know even if Asik gets the ball, he is harmless from midrange. Kind of like Spurs who continuously swarmed Randolph and Gasol since they didn't have any shooters to pass to.

So the lane is clogged either way in offense, which means less layups and more jumpers. I don't like it.

 

I guess you guys know more then D Morey and McHale.

 

Without interior scoring and lack of PF, Rockets were one of the best scoring teams of NBA last year. I don't understand how replacing bad PF with Asik or Dwight should impact Rockets badly.

 

Howard may start every night as the 5, but when/if we go the neo-twin-towers route, he is better suited to play the 4. Asik is ill equiped, at least to my recollection, to handle a 4 that can shoot, while Dwight isn't.

Asik: 15 minutes while Dwight sits + 10 minutes in tandem with Dwight. This gives us a defense that doesn't quit 48 minutes a game and 10 minutes of defense shut outs, while keeping Asik happy, which unless he's not a competitive person must be something that we have to keep an eye on.

Either way, it bodes well for us this year. I wouldn't be satisfied with anything short of a 55 win season and a trip to at least the Western Conference Semi-Finals/Finals depending on context, of course.

 

Can tim duncan shoot the three?
Can blake griffin?
Can Lamarcus?
Can Ibaka? (every now and then.)
Can Gasol?
Can eddie winslow?
Can Anthony Davis?
Can Kevin Garnett?
Can David West?

Asik or howard have foot speed to guard anything underneath the three point line, I've seen it happen time and time again. stretch four is overrated.
Coaches like pop are comfortable staying big, and will only go small if you make the first move to go small. If a team gets cute and goes small, adjust accordingly. no biggie.

 

This only makes sense if we're playing Memphis.

 

A well thought out post. But I believe that Asik sees 7 minutes a night on the floor with Howard. Howard 30 minutes, Asik 25 minutes. They would present an interesting challenge to the bottom 70% of the league. However it pretty obviously would not work against the Heat and other premier teams.

 

I would agree but I think it ultimately slows us down and makes our second unit that much worse. Splitting minutes 60/40 to keep both Howard and Asik healthy this year would be my goal - keeps Asik's trade value high enough to tempt teams that need a real center at the trade deadline and keeps the highest paid player on our team on the floor in the position he wants to play.

Dwight came to Houston to be happier - I can't seem him being as happy at the 4 position.

 

I think that starting Asik/Howard together should definitely be on the table, I for one think it's a good idea.
The only thing that I'm not in favor of is both of them playing together to finish off games! The hack-a-thon
on Dwight/Omer would drive me crazy, and would be awful to watch!
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No offense, but this isn't a "case" at all... this is just OP's speculative thoughts. The more likely story is that it plays out exactly like Morey has said: Asik off the bench, and McHale may experiment with both in short spurts or particular matchups.

 

id love to see Asik start next to Dwight. First thing i envisioned when Dwight chose Houston.

 

Ibaka/Perkins
Deandre/Blake
Duncan/Splitter
Marc/Zach
Faried/whoever
Bogut/Lee
LaMarcus/whoever
Favors/whoever
Anthony Davis/whoever

There are only 2 teams in the West that have 4's that you could call stretch 4's...besides us. That is Dirk and Love. All the other 4's have range at best out to 17 feet and in most of those cases (LaMarcus included) their shooting percentage out there isn't high enough to warrant doing more than simply challenging the shot with a hand up. So....to say that defensively Dwight and Asik would get hammered is bogus. Defensively there is no doubt they would be great together. As with any combos in the NBA there would be a few matchups where they might struggle. But there's certain defensive matchups that Lebron and Wade struggle with too. The long midrange shot is a very inefficient shot even with guys like Zach and LaMarcus. I am sure that we would prefer to give that up and have better paint D to defend against teams that run 2 bigs with limited range like I listed above...which covers all WC playoff contenders.


Offensively......needs to be explored. I know on paper it looks like those 2 guys would just congest the paint for Harden's drives. But I don't see it that way. I see Asik being able to operate at the top in pick and pop mode, setting the pick and immediately drifting away from Harden to the opposite FT line area, letting Harden drive and either throw the ball back out to him where he can immediately reverse it to Dwight down low posting up. Asik is a very good passer and a very underrated decision maker with the ball in his hands. Sure the D is going to fade away from him if he catches and holds up top. But if we actually practiced that play, I think you would see Asik making the quick pass down low and Dwight destroying his man underneath.

There are plenty of offensive options to exploit using Asik up high and Dwight down low on the weak side.

 

good post.

My thing is everyone hates the idea of asik and howard together yet the alternatives are dmo or jones.

if we get al harrington then I would play him with howard and move asik to 2nd unit. otherwise when the choice is dmo or jones I think its pretty clear we play asik.

 

I agree that Asik is an underrated decision maker, and heck, underrated as a passer. Last season, he showed us that he could make some terrific outlet passes. His big problem, pass wise, is catching the damn things. I think that when the two bigs are on the floor together, and they are bound to be, at least some of the time (IMO), we'll see some nice passes from Asik to Dwight inside for the easy dunk. I just don't know how that'll work the other way, though. One of the things that has me excited about getting Howard is that he can catch those passes from Harden, Lin, and Parsons that Omer would fumble half the time.

It'll be a trip watching the early part of the season play out, while McHale tries to put the best combinations on the court to produce wins. Except for the 4 spot, we have really excellent depth, with a lot of options.

 

It's a good argument and makes me reconsider my position. I'm not convinced on 2 things:

(1) I don't see Asik as a big dunk threat on a pnr -- I would throw his man on Howard and challenge Asik to catch the pass and complete the play. Maybe he comes through, though.

(2) You offered no solution to defending the stretch 4. Guys like Nowitzki and Ryan Anderson and small-ball line-ups will rain down the 3s on a twin-towers set.

But, I'm reconsidering because you're right that it is a big advantage on controlling the paint on defense and controlling the boards (defensively and offensively). Maybe you let their stretch-4s take their 3-pointers if it means no one can shoot at the rim. That might be a trade-off worth taking. After all, how many stretch-4s can do enough damage on offense and not give much up on defense? Nowitzki and... who else? I'm not scared of the midrange shooters like Bosh or LMA -- if the shot isn't worth 3 points, it can't compete with shots at the rim, which a twin tower set would shut down. The counter would have to be small-ball, and then you have a small forward trying to box out Howard or Asik for rebounds.

So, maybe I'll convert. We at least need to experiment.

People keep saying this. The alternative is trading Asik for a legit power forward.

People also get too hung up on who we call a 4 or a 5 and the prototype for the position. What we call them doesn't matter; what matters is how we use them on offense and defense. If Howard's ego has a problem with being listed as a PF, call Asik the PF. Howard should be the primary post-up player when we're posting up, and the primary picker in a PnR, and generally the primary big man in most offensive sets. Asik should guard the most dangerous low-block player to free Howard up to play help defense and defend the rim against slashers without giving up position to a dangerous big.

 

I agree completely. I dont care who is PF or C but having both them out there is a distinct advantage over camby,smith,dmo,jones.

I would take howard /asik combo over any combo of howard /smith or howard /jones. or asik/jones or asik/smith for that matter.

You play your best 5 and do exactly what you said in that "Asik should guard the most dangerous low-block player to free Howard up to play help defense and defend the rim against slashers without giving up position to a dangerous big"

 

I think it is more likely that we run 4 wings than 2 centers.

 

jones looked great in summer league.

 

As much as we want this to work, the truth is it won't for any decent amount of time.