<a HREF="http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/28/sprj.irq.nasiriya/index.html">U.S. Marines make headway in battle for Nasiriya</a> <i>................Several irregular Iraqi forces have fired on coalition forces then quickly returned to the city center and donned civilian clothes -- counting on the U.S.-led units not to fire on civilians -- Johnson said. Some 40 to 50 Nasiriya civilians who have fled the city reported that Iraqi paramilitaries are forcing citizens to volunteer their sons to fight, according to a U.S. Marine officer. "If [citizens] didn't [comply with the militia's orders], they said they would shoot a sibling," said Marine Capt. Peter Tabash, who speaks fluent Arabic. Tabash says a civilian told him Iraqi forces shot a 9-year-old boy because his family refused to cooperate with paramilitary groups. </i>
You know. I admire your objectivity. I'm just trying to be objective at your level. I said that I have to take here. As for you asking me to provide proof, why? when you have none. Our Regular Army has never deserted in whole. Mango's first article said the Iraqi Regular Army deserted. In that environment, we would be either surrending as a nation, or we would be executing deserters to get the Regular Army back on the firing line. There is only 2 options once your Regular Army deserts. Either surrender, or force them back onto the line. In the end, where is the proof of this being a "recruiting" thing. Like I say, I'm just merely trying to point propoganda on boths sides. Don't read my take based on this thread. Let's just celebrate objectivity trying to spot propoganda on both sides, OK, TheFreak. Otherwise, keep up the battle in the Rockets Game Forum.
A question arises: why doesn't the USA transfer the Iraqi captives to secure and neutral government like Swiss and let them testify in international court to make a stronger case? What's hindering them from doing that? I'm surprised to see excerpts from the media are presented in a way to seem as evidence for war. I mean when does the media guarenteed what they say is true, and even if they do, does that automatically give credibility to their stories? These things should be put under scrutiny instead of just swallowing it up. Besides, I just saw a footage of Iraqis taking buses from neighboring countries, going back to Baghdad to fight the Americans. They say they are not afraid. Not that it's pertinent to this topic, but there's both side of stories that don't always go through the media filter and war propaganda machine.
Mango...I'm not sure if this goes against BBS etiquette, but I just remembered that you had some historical questions re: pre WWII Germany that I was going to address when I got back from work one day, and totally forgot about it later...I'd like to defend myself by claiming that some significant news event captured my attention, but the truth is I don't remember...and I think that any questions as intelligent and grounded in actual intellectual curiosity as yours are both deserve answering and are enjoyable to engage in, so I'm not sure how, but could you remind me of the questions? Without the search function I have no way of recapturing them... If this is a breach of propoer conduct, ie completely unrelated topic in a thread, let me know how we can discuss it. Peace JAG
I have other news articles about the <i>pressure</i> that is being exerted on the population to fight, but enough have been posted in this thread. ABC televison had a story about <i>Chemical Ali</i> that just finished. They showed some old footage of things they did against the Kurds in the past. In one part, they had Kurdish rebels tied to posts and executed. The entire population (young children too) was forced to watch the execution by gunfire. Have you seen the old footage from the infamous Baath party meeting? <a HREF="http://www.orlandosentinel.com/elsentinel/comunidad/orl-asecsaddam18031803mar18,0,2327221.story?coll=elsent-comunidad-headlines">Lifelong struggle to survive stokes passion for power</a> <i>........<b>'Democratic executions'</b> Five days after he was inaugurated as president of Iraq, Saddam called a meeting of a thousand senior Baath Party leaders. In previous years, Saddam eliminated most foes outside his own party. On this day, he got rid of those within it. He sat casually smoking a Cuban cigar as it was announced that a plot had been uncovered to overthrow the government. He then brought out his party's secretary-general, Muhyi Abd al-Hussein Mashadi, who had made the mistake of suggesting that al-Bakr didn't need to retire or allow Saddam to take his place. Mashadi had been arrested and tortured into confessing to the "painful and atrocious" plot and then into identifying 66 conspirators. At the assembly, he was forced to call out their names. They were all present. Many wept in fear as Saddam took the podium, expressed shock and shed tears as he looked over the list of alleged plotters. He then ordered 22 of them blindfolded, bound and shot by fellow party members recruited to perform the "democratic executions." The killings were filmed for a video widely circulated in Iraq, just in case any others were feeling less than loyal to their new president............</i> <a HREF="http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002-11-24-saddam-cover-usat_x.htm">Will Saddam decide to disarm — or fight?</a> <i>When Iraq's war against Iran was faltering in the early 1980s, Saddam Hussein startled his Cabinet with a seemingly uncharacteristic request. He sought advice, encouraging the assembled ministers to speak freely. Health Minister Riyadh Ahmed took Saddam at his word and suggested that he temporarily step down to appease the Iranian religious leader, Ayatollah Khomeini. A peace agreement would be secured and Saddam could later return to power. Saddam thanked Ahmed and then ordered his arrest. The minister was sent home to his wife in pieces, the remains stuffed into a black canvas bag...........</i> I believe the stories about the population being forced to fight with any and all means of <i>pressure</i> being applied. If one decides not to give credence to viewpoint, that is their choice.
American allies exert pressure on their whole population to fight as well, although may not be as extreme in means as depicted about Iraq, it's compulsory recruiting in essence. The laws say that a young man must serve for two years in an army regardless of his will. The regions in question are South Korea and Japan. American press never bashed such forceful recruiting, I'd like to know why the double standard and if forceful recruiting is a standard of judging regime brutality, then what does that make those two regions out to be?
Reread your own post, it uses the word <b>laws</b> in regards to the countries you mention in SE Asia. That is different than the rumors of the current <b>law</b> in Iraq which is threats of violence and/or death to oneself and your family if you fail to join the military. In regards to national conscription laws, there are several other countries in the world that have some type of national service requirements. <a HREF="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1414033.stm">The death of conscription</a> If a country has a regular national service program that is part of its policy/law, then that is their business. The rumors about Iraq go far past that. Your comparison is beyond a stretch. <a HREF="http://web.amnesty.org/web/ar2001.nsf/webasacountries/TAIWAN?OpenDocument">Covering events from January - December 2000 TAIWAN</a> <i>........<b>Conscientious objectors to military service</b> On 15 January, the military conscription law was revised and a provision was created for civilian service as an alternative to military service. On 10 December, there was a presidential amnesty for 21 prisoners, including 19 Jehovah's Witnesses who had been convicted of refusing to undergo mandatory military service for religious reasons.........</i> The documentation that I found on the Republic of Korea has compulsory military service with no alternative program. If you have a good link proving that the conscription programs of Taiwan and/or South Korea are approaching the scale of brutality rumored in Iraq, please provide it.
