My thing is Michael Jordan's stats lined up with the winning. I'm not saying he wasn't playing on a great team, but he was the superstar of superstars on that team, just like Lebron James is on the Heat right now. He averaged an insane amount of points per game. If I remember correctly in one season he even averaged over 40 points a game in the Finals. As for their Finals shooting percentage, Michael Jordan's career shooting percentage in the finals is .481, Lebron James' career shooting percentage in the finals is .442. I was talking about Finals only. That's a great fact though. I'm not sure if I would have remembered that off the top of my head.
It is a matter of opinion, and I was saying one cannot use that for factual evidence. It is all objective
I was responding to the point that no team ever took Jordan's Bulls to seven games in their championship years (I didn't realize he was referring only to the Finals). But you are correct, I forgot about the seven game series with the Knicks in 1992.
Yeah I actually thought Cleveland did too, but not So how many game 6 closures did MJ win in the finals? 3?
I'm convinced you guys are just trolling me, because this is completely insane. JORDAN PROVIDED ZERO VALUE TO NBA TEAMS IN HIS AGE 18-20 SEASONS. We don't know if he would have been an all-star or an all-nba selection or a 14-win player in those years if he had entered the league earlier. We KNOW that about LeBron. How on earth is is more fair to compare by experience when Jordan entered the league with three full years of high level collegiate experience, and nearly three full years of additional physical maturation? If you think it's unfair to Jordan to compare by age, but that it's completely fair to LeBron to simply compare by years in the league, you're nuts. ESPECIALLY when you consider that, again, Jordan provided no measurable value as a professional in his age 18-20 seasons. If anything, throwing out LeBron's first two years is an advantage for MJ. And that's not even getting into the fact that comparing by age provides a more accurate picture when you're trying to predict future performance, which is still very relevant if we're seriously going to talk about LeBron's legacy when he's only 28.
To be honest I think they have a point. If it came down solely to where I'd rather start for the sake of improving and polishing my talent I'd rather just start in the NBA. Aside from Jordan's era being a lot better defensively, the way the rules were set made it much harder to score than it is today, as most players just avoid playing defense altogether these days. Nowadays good defense is keeping your hands in the air and not touching and pretending to be hit when you really weren't. Basically just acting and being a distraction. If you know how to act you can play defense at an elite level in today's era. Back then you got away a lot more with actually being physical and doing whatever it took to stop someone from scoring. I would love to see the scorers from today try and match their current numbers in Jordan's era where people aren't just letting them score most of the time. Jordan would easily be averaging 35-40 PPG or so in this era.
It's not fair either way whether you look at it from an age perspective or if you look at the fact that Jordan went to college. That's what I meant to say. But at least if you go by the number of seasons, it'll be the number of seasons each player has played in the league which means both players had an equal amount to acclimate themselves with the NBA. College does help, but it's not the NBA. There's no substitute for it. Don't see how his past is going to predict anything in the future anyway, accolades wise. Bottom line, you're using Jordan from seasons 1-7 of his career, while you're using LeBron at seasons 4-10. That's not fair either even when taking into account the high school/college thing. There is no substitute for the NBA, it doesn't matter how well off you come into the league. You still have to play in the league to get accustomed to it. There isn't a fair way to compare them overall when using age/seasons, but my point was if you're going to do it, at least go by the time perspective of when each was in the league. Out of curiosity, can you post the numbers/accolades comparing seasons 1-10 for both if you have the time. Thanks.
That is false. Check the defensive efficiencies, ratings, and adjust scoring to pace. Although the era is considered tougher for just reason, it does not mean that they played better defence. It is the opposite actually.
MJ did average a lot of PPG, but to be more accurate, one must adjust the statistics per 36 and for pace. This year's finals had a lot of blowouts: Lebron didn't play when Tmac played; therefore, he played less minutes than he could of. Also, shooting percentage does not paint the whole picture of who is better. There is so much more to basketball than scoring.
Are people really starting to say LeBron > Jordan already??? If LeBron wins 6 titles then yes...but let's stop the nonsense. Jordan Russell Kareem Magic Bird Wilt Olajuwon Duncan West Lebron is probably 4th-7th right now.
MJ: 6 time nba champion 6 time nba finals mvp 5 time nba mvp 10 time scoring champion 1 time DPOY 1 time ROY (Obviously) 2 time slam dunk champ 2 time Gold Medalist 14 time NBA All-Star 3 time all-star game mvp LBJ: 2 time nba champ 2 time finals mvp 4 time nba mvp 1 time scoring champion 9 time NBA all-star 2 time all-star game mvp 2 time Gold Medalist 1 time ROY Kobe: 5 time nba champion 2 time finals mvp 1 time nba mvp 2 time scoring champion 15 time all-star 4 time nba all-star game mvp 1 time nba slam dunk winner 2 time Gold Medalist Honestly, it's not close when you look at accomplishments. MJ has him beat in everything as far as hardware. Career stats would say they are alot closer though EDIT: Kobe stats added. MJ Career: 30.1 ppg, 5.3 apg 6.2 rpg 2.3 spg and 0.8 bpg LBJ Career: 27.7ppg, 6.9 apg, 7.6 rpg 1.7spg and 0.8bpg Kobe Career: 25.5ppg 4.8apg 5.3 rpg 1.5spg and 0.5bpg LeBron has a lot of work to do before he is GOAT GOAT EDIT: Kobe stats added
If you compare them both at age 28, however, Lebron has a distinct advantage... And that is the only fair comparison to make at this point.
should we do at age 28 or 10th year in the league? I would say 10th year in the league would be fairer.
Do you think comparing a 1st year player straight out of high school to a 1st year player with 3 years playing in a reputed college program is fair?
On the contrary, you've brought this up before when debating with me, and I had countered that such efficiencies are relative only to the eras they played in. Good defense today would be lackluster defense in the 80s and 90s. When the stats are accumulated in different eras with different rules and talent how can you really say they can be compared equally? This type of thing is something that can be judged purely by watching it. I don't see how anyone can watch a game from the past and then watch a game from today and see that it wasn't much more difficult to score back then. You literally can't even touch anyone today without getting called for a foul most of the time where as it was far different in the 80s and 90s. You flat out had to out play the opposing talent and often times had to still score after getting hit the entire game. Where as today someone with 3 fouls against them in the first half will literally intentionally avoid getting in the way just to avoid getting that 4th foul called against them. That's why I posted their shooting percentage. That shows how efficient they are with their shooting. Even then, though, Jordan's shooting percentage was quite a lot higher than Lebron's. As for other stats, Lebron's rebounding after subtracting turnovers only allows for two more possessions than Jordan's, but that far from equates to a massive 10 point difference in their PPG comparison. Then, of course, there's the fact that Jordan is 6 for 6 in the Finals and has never been taken to a game 7. Lebron is 2 for 4 and has either lost, including getting swept in 1, in the Finals or been taken to game 7 in 3 out of 4 of them. Lebron's career is still far from over so obviously he still has time to better his stats some. For now, though, the difference in dominance between the two is quite massive. Lebron will pretty much have to dominate more than anyone has ever dominated the NBA by far for the next 6 years or so just for his stats to come close to evening out with Jordan's. Even then, though, that's still not accounting for Jordan playing in a tougher era. So my point is I just can't really see him ever getting to that point. By the end I'm sure I'll be calling him one of the greatest, maybe even top 3, but not the greatest.
I don't think either (going just by same age, or same # years in the league) is a truly fair comparison. Its hard for me to judge which is less fair. Why not split the difference, and treat 1 year of D1 college experience as half a year of pro experience. So then we compare LeBron after year 10 to Jordan during year 9. I still say advantage Jordan.
talk greats, talk mentality and until game 7 vs Spurs Lebron was way behind. Coming seasons will tell more.
