Is Lebron's Game 6 vs. Boston (2012) a top 5 NBA playoff moment?

If it weren't for Ray Allen...

 

Top 5? I'll exaggerate to make a point (maybe not exaggerating?) in that Lebron may not even have a top 10 playoff moment just versus Jordan. His Airness had 8 games in the playoffs over 50 points but you can only fit so many things on an "iconic playoff moments" reel. More so, this game was pretty epic but Lebro's role in it was average.

This series has definitely been pretty good, though I don't know if it even cracks top 10. Reading a thread like this reminds me that people will think of Ben Wallace and Grant Hill as only marginal fogey roleplayers.

 

That chart shows a 43.7 point average over 3 games. They were swept by the Celtics.

 

Thanks, edited my embarrassing mistake!

 

Which game are you talking about?

 

Ray Allen played for the Celtics in game 6, 2012.

 

Good post. This is what I meant. Now keep in mind that most of your examples aren't from the modern era of basketball, so it's really hard for most people to have a fair opinion on the weight of those games. Even the Magic game was from 1980. Of the other's, Barkley's game was comparable. Worthy's was fantastic and definitely is one of the best ever. I can't count Isiah's since it ended in a loss. To me, the MJ pushoff game was overrated but to each their own I guess. Regardless, even if we do count it I've still got LeBron's game in the top 5. I guess I have to qualify by saying after 1980 since I didn't see much basketball before.

 

People posting raw non pace adjusted stats from the 60's, 70's, 80's = threadfail. But really that's what it's come down to. I realize it's contrary to the ethos of internet arguing, but I wish most of you would shut the **** up and watch the best player on the planet do his thing, win or lose;

 

Have you ever heard the phrase, "haters gonna hate"? This is what they do.

 

If you have some time, go read through that game thread from last year. There were multiple saying that the Heat WERE NOT going to beat Boston at home in Game 6. There were people saying it was impossible. There were king with no ring jokes, choker, big 3 failure. It was a foregone conclusion that the Heat had already lost the game and the series. LeBron would forever be known as a choker who doesn't show up in big moments.

Then the next thing you know, it was halftime, LeBron had 30 points and the game was already over. I think it was a TOP 2 playoff performance because of the moment, because of the stage, the pressure, the haters, everything combined it was just incredible.

 

Maybe we should update and use tonight's game instead.

 

Boston also had one of the best defenses, iirc.

 

It may make sense to use pace adjusted stats when you are talking about season averages, but it makes no sense whatsoever when you talk about an individual game. Sure in 1962, the pace was significantly faster, and with more missed shots, during the regular season throughout the league. But do you know what the pace was for the seventh game of the finals? I tried to look it up, but I can't find a complete box score.

Also, while the pace adjusted stats has some merits for normalizing statistics, it doesn't even begin to solve alot of the comparison difficulties. The question here is what are the greatest playoff performances. You can't judge those just on raw statistics, but you can say something about them from the raw statistics. Russells 40 rebounds shattered the playoff record, it was phenomenal by any standard, then or since. And you don't need any advanced metric to appreciate that.

And for what its worth, I never said anything about LeBron's game six last year. But I would put today's performance in the pantheon of great playoff performances. It's not up there with Fraziers (but then I was 10 years old growing up in New York when I saw that game), but it was truly great, particularly on defense. He did an amazing job on Parker, while holding the team together on offense.

 

I dunno but 2013 Finals games 6 and 7 were pretty crazy games and prolly right up there with the best.

 

It makes complete and total sense, far more than your futile battle against basic arithmetic - what is true for 1 game is true for 75 games. If there's 150 possessions in game in 1962 vs. 100 in a game in 2013, the stats are going to be inflated by some proportional measure. This was equally true in the playoffs as it is in the season .

Elgin Baylor attempted 28 shots per game in the 1961 playoffs - James averaged 18 shots a game this year. Why? because the the pace of the game resulted in vastly more possessions and inflated the stats in the earlly 60's to arena-football levels.

 

Last night game is definitely top 5

 

Agree.

 

I found some composite boxscores for the 1962 finals. If you compare them to last years final, the pace was 1.25 times as great for those finals as for last year. That's based on a shot per minute comparison for the two series. .83/minute in 62, and .66 last year. Taking that as the basis for comparison, Russell's performance in game seven adjusts to a modest 24 points and 32 rebounds. Yeah, that would totally suck today.

As for reasons why just taking pace into account doesn't make sense. If you use pace adjustment as a measure, then Mikan's 1951 season was one of the greatest in history??? Pace adjustment by itself doesn't give you a good basis for comparing between era's. It may be slightly better than raw stats, but there's too much different between the game in different eras to think that any stat adjustment will make a reliable, persuasive basis for comparison. Rules are way too different. Available player pools are different. Expansion has made a huge difference. Style of play has changed dramatically. Even basic things like their shoes are way too different.

 

What about this game? 29 of their last 30

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