Hospital costs can vary more than $200,000 for same procedure, government report reveals

HA! It's already a struggle for the healthcare industry just to have people take care of themselves in the first place. Giving people control of their dollars doesn't mean that there will be better outcomes.

 

This is why capitalism and health care shouldn't mix.

 

The uninsured population is currently in this system. It doesn't work quite like you envision.

 

I really don't understand some of the "pull it out of your ass" comments you make sometimes.

For the remote uninsured few who actually shop around for procedures, they are usually given the finger. The system is designed for insurance companies and medicare/medicaid, not for those who wish to shop around for quotes. Insurance companies do not want this system nor does the healthcare system. If you had a business that was busy 100% of the time, would you rather compete for customers, thus forcing you to drive your prices down, or maintaining clients who's funds are subsidized?

Many of the uninsured are healthy individuals. If you are healthy, how are you even in the system?

For the rest, they either go w/out, go in debt, go bankrupt, or get donations. Going back to the first point, there is simply no "system" to shop around.

 

I don't understand most of what you suggest either.

There are approximately 50,000,000 uninsured in the country. They are not all poor or unable to pay for their services. Most - even the mostly healthy ones - visit doctors and hospitals. That's a pretty big market for doctors and hospitals to ignore. And, not surprisingly, you're wrong in your claim that they don't cater to it. Not only do doctors not give these people the finger, some practices encourage skipping the insurance system by giving cash discounts or other bonuses because insurance claims are a pain for doctors too. I have insurance, but with a high deductible. I've been offered a lower rate on multiple occasions to skip insurance since my insurance-adjusted rate would still come out of my deductible and by higher.

As you said, most uninsured don't shop around - that's a pretty good indicator of what would happen if the entire system was built that way. The poorer amongst this group would benefit the most by shopping around, and even they don't do it. Why? Because health care is not a "shop around" type market and consumers will never have all the transparent information necessary to make efficient economic decisions.

There are hundreds of different health care systems around the world, in all types of countries with all types of economic systems. Can you name one successful simple free market "control your own health dollars" one that has resulted in good outcomes with controlled costs?

 

This is the free market.

Except when it sucks, then it's something else's fault.

But when it's good it's the free market.

But when it sucks it the fault of people, government, etc.,.

....this is the free market.

 

http://www.gallup.com/poll/126143/health-insurance-coverage-varies-widely-age-income.aspx



80% of people who make over 48k have insurance. Basically the poorer you are the less likely you are to have insurance. Do hospitals want to deal with poor people? Given they are not likely to pay probably not.

Please give me an example of a first world country where you shop for the best quotes? Most every other first work country has a universal coverage and pay significantly less than the US.

There is is literally no data you have to back up any of the claims you make.

 

*every* religion needs its devil

Rocket River

 

Emergency medical services don't fit into the traditional economic model due to it's nature of perfectly inelastic demand.

In no way shape or form should it be in a free market model. It should be aggressively regulated.

 

Actually, most republicans probably don't remember but Nixon tried to get a more liberal form of Obamacare passed, but was rejected. I'm sure repubs would be defending the crap out of "Nixoncare" if it got thru. It all depends what team you're on with this crowd.

 

Watching Space Ghost get totally owned in health care related threads is becoming so routine it almost deserves pity.

 

Somebody here obviously hates america.

 

So, what's it like being a DIRTY LAZY COMMIE SYMPATHIZER?!
:grin:

 

Some form of this question is inevitably asked in every healthcare reform thread and inevitably it is ignored by the wingnuts.

 

...and it's been ignored again. FREE MARKETS ARE FREEDOM LIBERTY ANGELS!!!!!!

 

Reading failure? I pretty much stated there is no system to shop around for quotes. It was Major who stated otherwise. Im not sure what claims you think im making and what I should back up.

I acknowledge that universal coverage is the best compromise for all. Is it the cheapest? If you're poor, yes.

We have one of the worst forms of healthcare, and ironically enough, Obamacare reinforced this system.

 

I'm good with the US having some types of Universal coverage...but it will NEVER be cheaper in the US. One major reason is that it takes a LOT more to keep Americans healthy - we eat like crap, never exercise, and over-medicate. We take much longer to approve new helpful medicines that are in use in other countries because we're scared of lawsuits. Heck, my first Doctor in DFW closed his practice because he couldn't afford his malpractice insurance premiums. If Americans weren't so spoiled greedy slobs, Universal Healthcare just actually might work well here like it does in other countries.

 

We also have a lot of genetic and racial diseases in the system that most European countries don't have to deal with.