After reading the above quote by Marc Stein I did a lil research of my own to see just how "valuable" Kobe has been. I was suprised to find out that the Lakers are 5-10 in games without Shaq this season. I thought, surely Marc must place some of the blame on Kobe's shoulders for the teams poor 3-9 start. I mean, he claims Kobe is the main reason the Lakers rallied from a 11-19 record to title contender status. How can he not be the main reason to blame for the teams poor start? I know some Kobe lovers will say Kobe had no help without Shaq. However, does that excuse account for losses to the Cavs, Celtics, Wizards, Hawks, and Rockets (Yao wasn't even starting then) early on. Hell, 2 of the 3 wins came against the Clippers and Warriors (who were playing poorly at that time). On the other hand, LA is 30-16 with the big fella (a 65% win clip, which would put them at around the #4 or #5 seed assuming he played all season). The Lakers have gone 24-7 since their 11-19 start. I know Kobe had his month of 40 point outbursts, but Shaq only missed 3 of the next 31 games. In the games 28 games that he played after the 11-19 start, he has averaged 27 points, 11 boards, 3.5 assists, 2.6 blocks while shooting 57% from the field. The three games he missed included a loss to the Knicks, a b.s. double overtime win over Houston and a win over Utah. Hmm, looking at the numbers, it seems Shaq's play had a lot to do with bringing LA back from the dead as well. Now exactly why should one vote Kobe for MVP again, considering the other MVP candidates have: A) Comparable, if not better statistics B) Teams with better records, that have been winning at a higher % than the Lakers have been winning WITH Shaq (meaning Kobe has had more help on his squad when Shaq played) C) Teams with winning records when Shaq is subtracted from the equation. 5-10 without the big fella? C'mon now....you can argue that McGrady, Duncan and KG have more help minus Shaq, but their teams were not losing 66% of their games.
Yes. You are right. Kobe shouldn't be MVP... He started off bad. But then he led the team after... KEVIN GARNETT FOR MVP!
100% agree. Kobe and KG may be tied neck and neck for the most talented player in the game, but that's not what the MVP is about. The Most Valuable Player this year is without a doubt Kevin Garnett. The T-Wolves do not have a great supporting cast, Wally has been injured on and off and had a much worse season than last year, and KG simply makes all of his teammates better. Why does it seem like his supporting cast of Troy Hudson, Nesterovic and Marc Jackson is better than Fisher, Fox, George, etc? Because the TWolves listed are just better? Possible, but not by much. Because KG makes them seem much better? Definitely. Kobe isn't even second in my opinion. How I'd vote for the MVP at this point: 1) Kevin Garnett 2) Tim Duncan 3) Kobe Bryant 4) T-Mac 5) Nowitski 6) Jamal Mashburn (this guy is so underrated) 7) Chris Webber 8) Allen Iverson 9) Shaquille Oneal 10) Jason Kidd A lot of people may disagree with number 5, but 24 and 10, 3 assists, over a block, nearly 1.5 steals per game...best record in the league, and as big of a matchup problem as any guy on that list. Defense can obviously still use improvement, though. Mashburn may seem a little high at number 6 also, but I gave a lot of credit to the fact that not only are his numbers comprable, his team doing as well, and his defense better than a player like Iverson, he doesn't have any "attitude" problems and he shots a much higher percentage.
Threads like these aren't worth my time. Yes, Kobe should NOT be MVP. It should be KG. I still think Kobe is a better player than KG, but if MVP actually means "Most Valuable"... Do you have anything better to say than, "Kobe needs some ass wiping". Aren't you older than 10 years old? I thought you were.
Do you anything, and I mean anything positive to say about the Rockets? Screw that. Do you have anything to say about the Rockets that is not extremely negative? You post on a Rockets board and always thrash them, while defending any other team. Aren't you older then 10? Make up your mind.
It's funny that you get so "offended" by my comments regarding the Rockets. So rather than say positive things to offset my negativity, you choose to act in a juvenile manner? Nice logic there. Next time I'm negative with the Rockets (which admittedly is most of the time), then say something to me that would change my mind. Rather than resorting to namecalling or whatever other straws you so choose to grasp. Moreover, please tell me what my negativity with the Rockets has to do with Kobe Bryant not being deserving of the MVP (which I can even admit).
Namecalling? Please tell me hwo I offended you? Are you actually claiming you don't kiss Kobe's ass at every given opportuninty?
A shaqless Lakers are as cheap as LAC in salaries. Plus their supporting cast are built around shaq, who cannot create, dribble or run. All they can do is to wait outside for open shots. Plus the suspension of fox and injuries of Walker and George, what Kobe had done was not shabby. KG may not have more talents in his team, but, c'mon, when you are paid 25M per year, you have to get 3 rings like shaq, or play like a Kobe Ducan combination or you are not worth the money.
1. Kevin Garnett- finally leading his team to wins with key plays down the stretch. 2. T Mcgrady- So good he's sat out the 4th quarter atleast twice. 3. Tim Duncan- Mr. consistent double double 4. Kobe
How are any of those reasons acceptable for a 33% winning percentage without the big fella? The Lakers supporting cast might not be all that (even though they were good enough to win 3 straight championships), but a 33% winning clip while being the focal point of the team is a joke. There have been plenty of star-caliber players who played with crappy teammates (as a Rockets fan you should know), yet managed to at least win close to half of their games. Go back through NBA history and name one star player that is/was as highly regarded as Kobe yet couldn't manage to win close to half their games, no matter who was on the team. Dream, Wilkins, Jordan (when first drafted), D. Robinson, Shaq, V. Carter, etc all played with crappy players at times, yet still managed to win at least half of their games (this is including their rookie years, before teams were "built" around them). I get so tired of the "the team is built around Shaq" excuse. That still dosen't explain 33% ball. Hell, Pippen (lord knows we hate him) lost Jordan (who had more of an impact than Shaq) and almost took a team built around Jordan to the Eastern Conference Finals.
I'm surprised so many seem to rate Bryant ahead of Shaq. Imo, despite streaks of 40 point games and all the hype, Shaq is still the MVP of the Lakers. No way should Bryant be MVP of the league when he's not the MVP of his own team. The Lakers team is built around Shaq and, as a result, his absence hurts their performance much more than Bryant's would. That pretty much gets to the heart of what the MVP is about. Shaq wins games while Bryant just scores points. If we should be talking about any Laker as competition for MVP against the likes of Garnett and Duncan (which we shouldn't, given their crappy record) it should be Shaq not Bryant.
I agree 100%. I think Kidrock8 is an annoying poster. Either its Francis sucks, trade everyone and the rockets will never make the playoffs; or its the Lakers are the best ever and I wish I could lick Kobe. If you love them and despise the Rockets go to their bbs.....!
Definitely. Let's see, 5-10 without Shaq...doesn't that tell you who the MVP of the Lakers is? How could there even be a doubt about this? The media is really stupid sometimes.
KR is doing something right by annoying many of the posters here. TD & KG are very close for the MVP. A few weeks ago I thought they were tied, then I thought TD was ahead, now I think they are close to tied again. I would hold by ballot until the end of the season if I had one. The gap between these 2 and the rest for MVP status is considerable IMO since the Nets, Magic and Lakers have had such mediocre stretches even when the next 3 MVP candidates have been healthy. Webber would be a solid candidate if not for injuries, Dirk could be too, but with all the talent on the Mavs and given his not playing defense--it is awefully hard to give him serious MVP consideration.
here's my take on the whole thing. true, the lakers started 3-9 w/o shaq and have a good record with shaq. but look at that 11-19 record, that's 18 games with shaq back and the lakers were still only 8-10 with him. technically, that's a .444 winning % while kobe himself brought .250, therefore you could say shaq only brough a .194 winning % for 18 games. that's no small stretch, that's nearly a quarter of the season. however, i choose to say neither brought on the crappy %, i say the lakers role players just sucked terribly to start the season and seemed to be in the doldrums until the lakers recent run. also, shaq was playing his fat ass into shape. kobe was pretty much the only one bringing it on any given night. now that everyone is finally playing well again (you knew they'd eventually show some semblance of "turning it on") they are winning some more. and look who stepped up the most during the big run. kobe. they were like 11-2 during the first 13 games of his 35+ streak. he was playing huge, and they were winning. as for the beginning of the season again, some may not like the "it's built around shaq" argument, but it's true. tmac has people who at least semi-fit him (if they still lack talent and a decent big man) and allow him to pass to 3 pt shooters and get out and run. kg has a ton of good shooters around him to make sure you pay for doubling him and that compliment his amazing willingness and ability to pass very well. kobe has a bunch of people who stand around and hope he can get them a good shot, has to play in the triangle, and can't get out and run unless it's with himself on a 1 on whatever fastbreak. he had nothing to play to his strengths. i think at one point about 9 or 10 games in, he was averaging 28 pts, 9 rebs, and 9 asts. those are mindboggling stats and yet they weren't winning, what else could he possibly do? his role players sucked. but look, once they finally started playing well and shaq went out for 3 games, this time they were 2-1. kobe is obviously extremely important to them and had to carry them while shaq was still rounding into shape. he still was the main offensive focus for a while and showed he could handle it and torch people. i still don't think he should be mvp (garnett and duncan are my choices) but to say he's not in the running or it's ludicrous to consider him are not right imho.
