Why would Donald Sterling want to pay Kelvin Cato nearly $24m for the next three years? The budget conscious Sterling could possibly have Elden Campbell and Sean Rooks and Wang Zhi Zhi for what Cato costs in a year. Regarding the Clipps need/desire for Cuttino. Don't they already have Dooling, Q and Maggette at the SG? Why do the want Cuttino? Assuming they let Kandi walk, Cuttino would become the second highest paid Clipper after Brand. It is my understanding that Andre Miller is restricted FA this summer. I find it hard to believe that Cato and Mobley would be the best offer on the table for Miller (think of "best offer" in the terms Sterling would - cheap). Capologists correct me if I'm wrong but...as a restricted FA, if there is an under the cap team which bids more for Miller than Sterling will bid (or take equivalent contracts for) then the choice becomes Millers. Case in point. Miller played college ball in Utah. If Stockton retires (or signs a vet minimum contract to help the Jazz) and Malone re-signs for a reasonable amount (say $8m like DRobb did 2 or 3 seasons ago), then the Jazz easily have enough money to take Miller away from the Clipps. Not to mention, if the Nuggs can't get either LeBron or Arenas you can bet Miller is on their radar. I just think Miller is too much of a pipe dream.
Once again, Why get a SF to play PG? Why not get an actual PG to play PG? I mean, what's the purpose of having a point F with an all-SG backcourt, especially if neither are lock-down defenders. I mean, if Francis was a strong defender against PGs, a point F would be something to consider, but Francis is a mediocre PG defender at best. Actually, I think Francis' lateral quickness for a PG is rather average, which may explain why he plays matador D. But his straight line speed, that's another story. At SG, however, I think Francis could be one of the league's best. He should blow by every bigger, but slower, SG in the league, and his quickness advantage over SGs should end his being beaten off the dribble. Of course, you worry about SGs posting him up, but how many good post-up SGs are in the league, anyways? Kobe, McGrady, Finley, Wells, Q. Richardson, and Carter are the one's that come to mind. Well, Richardson (a 6th man), Kobe, & Wells aren't much of a concern being that they're on teams with dominant post players, i.e. they don't get a lot of post-up opportunities. Carter & Finley, though they get as many opportunities as they like to post up (since they're the best post players on their teams), like to mix it up & aren't the type to give you a steady diet of post ups. So that leaves McGrady, the one SG in the league who does post a lot. But then again, how many times do the Rocks play the Magic? As you see, Francis defending at SG doesn't concern me at all. Whatever problems he has defensively, you hope his quickness & speed advantage on offense balances them out. I agree that the Rockets should hope that Nachbar is for real, or upgrade the SF position. And it would be great if Nachbar, or yet-to-be-named-future-stud SF, has solid ball-handling skills. But ideally, the ball-handling SF equals 1 more solid passer on the floor, not someone to relieve the PG of his PG duties. BTW, Pippen plays point F for Portland for the same reason he played point F in Chicago: the PGs on his team STINK! Ditto for Grant Hill in Detroit.
I don't think the Rockets will be looking to trade for a point forward. Judging from Rudy's past comments and Doc Rockets posts, Nachbar seems to be a lock as the starting 3 of the future, despite his lack of playing time this season. At the very least, he'll be given a chance before the team looks for someone else at the 3. If a change is going to happen, it'll be in the backcourt. Plus, who's to say that Boki can't groom into the point forward role. He's been compared to B.Barry and Hedo. His idol growing up was Toni Kukoc, a point forward.
I'm going to keep it very simple for you. First, we can't win the championship without a near All Star level SF. Bank it. Secondly, list the number of true PG's that the Rockets can realistically get. Andre Miller and Eric Snow are pipe dreams. I mean realistically. The number of available SF's with the requient athleticism and handles is greater than the number of true PG's the Rox can realistically obtain. Plus we need that level of productivity at SF anyway. A point forward makes the attack 3 dimensional with none of the "Big 3" being redundant but with overlapping skill sets (post up, drive and kick, rebounding, etc.). I guess Rudy's not the only one guilty of a lack of vision. And the Bulls won how many championships with good old what's his name at PG? Ron Harper and BJ somebody. Thanks for proving my "point" further.
I don't disagree at all. But as long as the offensive Big 3 is a PG, a SG and a C, you are waiting both on Boki's development and the team making the adjustment downstream. If that type of player and offense are inserted this summer, you've placed yourself way ahead of the curve.
ragingFire Do you even understand the context of my post at all Or are just posting because you cannot control your fingers? How is Iverson's career so far? Did many people not say it was not going to work - playing the 2-guard position? What about Murphy? They were doubters as well? The whole point is that it can work and I am very sure Mr Calvin Murphy (and Bill Worell) will know one or two things about that more than you sir. Please take your pill first before rejoining this discussion.
REALLY?! Name one. (Remember, you said REALISTICALLY attainable point Fs that could comfortably run the offense.) And the near All Star level SF that was on the back-to-back teams was...? The near All Star level SF on the Lakers right now is....? The Spurs...? I'll keep it simple for you, contemporary championship teams with dominant big men tend to have role-playing SFs. Now, if we all believe in Yao Ming, guess which category the Rocks fit in. BTW, I agree with you that the offense is too perimeter-heavy, and could really use a scoring swingman, but that's another topic. I thought this debate was about switching Francis to SG versus bringing in a point F to do his PG duties for him. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Give me Jaric... tall combo guard who would probably come cheap, heck I'd take him over Andre Miller at the same price
If Jason Kidd goes to San Antonio next year, why don't we make a move for Tony Parker. Parker and Francis backcourt...sounds good!!
Gater, 1) Generalizations like "You can't win a championship with a near all-star level SF" just can't be made. Sure, most teams have had a pretty good SF...that absolutely doesn't make it a prerequisite to winning a championship. Rick Fox over the hill last year? 2) Your idea of a "point-forward" seems to be skewed. If you really want one on this team, try and find one. Outside Pippen, Antoine, and Odom (of 2 years ago), there's not really one that pops in my head (correct me if I'm wrong). But none that are really worth acquiring (or in Antoine's case, even possible to acquire) I'm sorry, Caron Butler isn't close to a point-forward. Yes, I do watch Heat games on League Pass. He's a good player, and has great potential already...but a point-forward? No way. We're all getting a little too impatient...well, maybe Mobley does need to go. But even if the team stays together, I think we'll see a big improvement next year. Can't rush development TOO much..
What context are you referring to? Did u not just say before and now again that Iverson is and Murphy was great SG? Noone ever argued against that! I told you before and again that while that is true, they are/ were liability on defense and you need to have a big PG to play along side them to guard the opp's SG. Thus limiting our choice for PG. Is that too hard to understand?
Yes, you are correct. The topic is about Steve's quote about moving to SG. I knowingly deviated from the topic because IMHO there are no worthwhile PG's which will truly be available (other than maybe Jeff McInnis). That is why I mentioned to you to name me some realistic options as I don't think Snow or Miller are real possibilities. (Miller is a restricted FA and Utah and Denver have the $ to court him). Because Point Forward is not a "true" or recognized position, I would ask you to look at the position in terms of any players' attributes as oppossed to if he is playing the "position" currently. The attributes that I see are very good handles, good athleticism (especially open court) and the ability to pass better than Steve, Moochie or Cuttino. Prior experience is not a requirement. For me, Caron Butler is every bit obtainable since the Heat would value Cuttino much more than Sterling. Darius Miles could fill the role and the Rockets have many desirable players Cleveland would covet. Rice's contract would be a good thing to CLE or MIA but not to LAC. OK, we can agree to disagree but for about the same expense as Miller or Snow the Rockets could have a strong defender like McInnis at PG and work a deal for Odom or Miles at SF. Does this appeal to you? It does me. 1) McInnis 2) Francis 3) Odom (or Miles) 4) EG/MoT 5) Yao
Oooh, I missed this quote. Thanks for proving my point. Harper and BJ, they were solid defenders at PG, so there was a need to keep them in the lineup and allow Pippen to play point F. The Bulls certainly didn't want Pippen chasing PGs on defense. On the Rocks, however, if you can find a F who can play PG, then why keep Francis at PG? I mean, he's probably no better defender than the SF, and he's not the play-maker the SF is since you brought in the SF to play PG. So, you have a PG who wants to shoot and can't play D. Sounds like a SG, or trade bait, to me! BTW, if having a Lamar Odom, one of the better point Fs in the league, is so inventive and fantastic, why did the Clips trade for Miller? Couldn't the Clips have put a back-court of Magette (who's quick enough to defend PGs if he wants) and Richardson\Pike\Jaric on the floor with Odom, who was healty at the time of the Miller trade? There's you 3-D attack, right? In fact, didn't they offer Odom for the #1 overall, which they would have used on Jay Williams, a PG? Eagerly awaiting your answer.
As an aside, I see that Andre Miller's name is being thrown around. I know some people in this thread think he is going to get a MAX offer this summer but I sure don't. Heck even one western conference GM said that his stock has fallen SO MUCH that he is now worth the MLE! Now, I am not saying that; I am not saying his stock has fallen THAT low. But Miller's stock has fallen! Make no mistake about it. Probably not his fault considering he is on a horrible team with no chemistry. But his play has fallen off and that can't help his contract situation any. I would bet he would go for AT MOST the type of contract that Rashard Lewis or Raef Lafrenz got last summer. But in no way is Miller worth the max. I would be shocked if anyone gave him the Max. Perhaps if Utah is desperate, but that is about it. Just my two cents. And yes, Miller on the Rockets would be an interesting idea. And I would love to be able to keep Mobley as a 6th man spark plug off the bench, but if it takes Mobley to get Miller, pull the trigger. Chris
In terms of point forwards. I don't like Miles and Butler. Caron Butler is a nice scoring SF but I don't see him setting up his teammates. As for Miles, he still is VERY raw. He is more of a slasher. I don't see point forward in him. Odom is a special player. If he can stay healthy and find the right team he can be an all star. From what I have seen he is a true point forward. He has incredible handles for a 6-10 guy. Legitamte point forwards are rare and hard to come by. I think the Rockets have a more realistic shot at getting a decent point guard. Chris
First, you have never addressed my request for the name of a distributive point guard who plays D that is truly available to Houston. I don't care how much another poster mentioned Miller's stock dropping...Miller is a system player on a team with no system. Utah on the other hand? Think Harpring and you will understand why they will take Miller in a heartbeat...and they very likely will have the $. Secondly, the Clipps trade was a combination of factors. 1) The Clipps needed a PG. McInnis wanted more than they were willing to pay. McInnis makes more on Portland's bench than Miller does as a starter. 2) Jaric was a very unproven commodity. 3) Miles (to them) was expendable. Miller's selection IMO was not so much that the Clipps discarded a Point F concept but that they could swap one low price commodity they had (SF) for one that they didn't (PG). Jay Williams has a lower price tag than Odom and if the deal went thru they could have used Miles at the Point F. The problem with your logic is that you are trying to say the basis of the Clipps moves is talent or winning driven when we both know it's economics driven. OK, I'm done. Now I know how Christopher Columbus felt when everyone around him was saying the world was flat.
The Rockets won't have the cap room. They are not under the salary cap. The only way they can add to the team is either use the MLE (Payton won't go for this) or by trading players. Rice's expiring contract of 9M is a pretty nice chip to use. Mobley and Cato have value. Not sure the Rockets have the right pieces to get Payton. I think the only way to do it is a "sign and trade" for Payton and perhaps send Milwaukee Cato in some sort of package. Milwaukee NEEDS interior defense and shot blocking in the worst way and Cato in the EC could be a pretty decent center. Milwaukee would only do this if they feel Payton would not resign there and they would lose him for nothing. Even if he does leave perhaps that does not hurt the Bucks as they were trying to dump salary anyway when they traded Ray Allen.
I'm just wondering why Steve would just come out and say that in the thick of a heated playoff race. I'm wondering what Cat thinks about that. I don't think it'll help our team chemistry when people are calling out each other for their job.
