In their primes, 94 for Hakeem and this past season for shaq, who was the better, more dominant player. i know that everyone here is completly biased towards the dream, but i'd like to hear actually logical arguments support it, one way or the other? it just kind of makes me mad when sports writers write that shaq is now in the upper echelon of all time centers with wilt, kareem, a russell, but hakeem isn't even mentioned. i remember the taco bell thing where they were supposed to go one on one but hakeem had an injury. we need to prove it to ourselves that we truly have one of the greatest centers of all time, not just some guy who's not shaq. ------------------ "When the mind is thinking, it is talking to itself." .... Plato [This message has been edited by Loafinator (edited October 29, 2000).]
This is the way I always look at it- In 95 David Robinsons won the MVP, not in a landslide like Shaq last seaason, but still Robinson was a very dominant center that year. Yet, Hakeem completely destroyed him that year's in the playoffs. Hakeem raised his game that year in the playoffs to a level where I think few centers have ever played, especially Shaq, thus far in his career. The Dream just dominated every team we played that year in the playoffs. Shaq certainly hasnt done that yet. This past year, for example, while very dominant, Shaq never raised his game to that unbelievable level (Kobe was more of the clutch playmaker in the end, Shaq cant even make free-throws). And two years ago, Duncan whooped up on Shaq. SO, basically, Id go with Hakeem anyday. ------------------ Remember.... You are not really drunk until you must hold on to the grass to keep from falling off the earth.
I like Dream better because his game is more than being tall and strong. He's been pretty much undersized for a center, yet he developed moves, became a great passer, and worked on his shot to become an all-around amazing player. He never relied on his size to carry him through a game. ------------------ When you make an assumption, you make an ass out of yourself and umption. visit www.swirve.com
94-95 Hakeem vs. 99 Shaq would be a very interesting topic to discuss. They are in many ways simlilar to each other. Both were the most dominant centers at their times. But speaking of COMPLETENESS, I have to vote for Hakeem. One obvious point is FT shooting. As the star of his team, Hakeem was able to calm his teammates down when it came to crunch time, making the FT's. What is Shaq doing? Phil Jackson even needs to take him out of a close game at closing minutes. As Bob Costa said on TV, Shaq may be the only MVP taken out of a close game at the closing minutes. What a shame for Shaq! I would add that Shaq is more classic a center than Hakeem has been. When you look at Kareem or Wilt, you can tell classic big men get their points in the paint, overpower other their defenders. What did Hakeem do? In his early career, he was scoring in the paint. But later he was establishing his own game on the court. What's that fake, fadaway, shake??? In terms of surprise, I would go for Hakeem, too. I'm sorry. Your question was "Who's better?" No doubt Hakeem is the best. But no one knows for sure unless they go back to their primes and match up against each other, which is impossible. Well, I AM biased! But who cares? ------------------
Shaq is above average defensively, but Hakeem was the best on the defensive side. I'd like to see Shaq run down KJ and block his shot. I would also like to see Shaq make some clutch shots...oh sorry I forgot one actually has to be in the game to make clutch shots. ------------------ Fun Police Says: 1. Stupid threads & Stupid BBS names are not FUN! 2. Conduct yourself in a FUN way! The Fun Police are Watching. Vote for the Rockets & Have FUN!
I would say that Shaq is below average defensively. There are a lot of centers in the NBA that outplay him defensively right now: Mutombo, Mourning, Robinson, and Duncan. Add Garnett, Malone, and some other shot blocking PF/SFs. He is probably the third or forth best defender on his own team (Kobe, Horry). Hakeem was one of the two best defending centers in the history of the NBA. I know that he is the all time shot blocking leader, but you have to put Russell in there anyway. To compare offensive games: Hakeem didn't rack up the points as much as Shaq does, but the points he did score were much more important. Hakeem scored at the most difficult times in the most important games. With two minutes left in a tied game, Hakeem would make the shot, AND MAKE THE FREE THROWS WHEN HE WAS FOULED. Shaq will never compare to that, because if anyone is going to get the chance on that team it will be Kobe. ------------------
I have to pick Dream based on the following: ***Current Shaq in a time machine playing for the mid-90's Rocks - no championship. Reasons: 1) Shaq's defense is more paint less court oriented (the KJ block mentioned prior as example). 2) If the outside shooting is off Shaq is the show and his clutch free throw shooting becomes more of an Achilles heel than it is today. 3) Shaq's current persona would have made the mid 90's Rocks a less focused team (if Elie had a comment about the Spurs toughness & focus, I can believe he would have made one then). ***Mid 90's Dream in a time machine to last years Lakers - almost "Unbeatable" as NBA Champs. Reasons: 1) Dream at his peak with Kobe and solid roll players. Forget Jordan's Bulls. These guys would win 76 games. 2) Shaq is not slow-footed, but Dream could give better low post help against 'Sheed even when moved outside by Sabonis. And Dream would have been quick enough to fake Arvydas out of his sneakers. 3) Dreams FT's at crunch time. 4) Dreams persona allows more room for Kobe to grow on court. Closely followed by 5. 5) Faker$ save $10M b/c they don't have to hire Jackson to harness all of the egos. I doubt if Rice's wife makes the same remarks. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it! ------------------ GATER [This message has been edited by GATER (edited October 29, 2000).]
I would have to say that Hakeem in 94 would be better than Shaq in 99 because Hakeem's all around game is a lot better than Shaq's. Shaq is very dominant partly because he is HUGE, but Hakeem is smaller and has better passing, defense, and definitely better free throw shooting. ------------------ SJSLAX82 Visit my site Blast Off
They have two totally different offensive games. Shaq is pure physical force while Dream had an offensive arsenal. Defensively Shaq finally stepped up last year, but Dream was more intimidating in his prime. Another thing to keep in mind is Dream in his prime had many other centers (Ewing, Parish, D-Rob, Moses Malone, etc) that he encounterd. In Shaq's time he has mainly aging centers and worthless big bodies. Now with Zo gone it is an even thinner center crop. Put it this way people on here mention Cato as a top 10 center and I honestly don't know if he could have started for any NBA team 6-7 years ago. All in all I would take Dream, but if Shaq continues to improve he could become one of the greatest of all-time. ------------------
Hakeems play from 92-95 was one of the best 3 yrs ever for an all around game. Lets see how Shaq follows up his encore. ------------------ "Chucky who? I thought we were talking about basketball?" Charles Barkley
One of the things i do not like bout Shaq is that most pts(if not all...hey gotta make those free throws!) come from inside the paint. It shouldnt be too hard when u stand so tall with so much weight/power to make a baby hook a couple feet away from the basket (or dunk or a layup). Hakeem took his game outside of the paint. Sure, during the mid-90's he had his share of dunks and layups, but what about the countless baseline jumpers, "Dream Fakes", and top of the key shots he made (and in the Clutch no less). I think its a solid argument that the Dream's offensive abilities were more complete and more varied than Shaq's. And on defense. It can't be denied that Shaq is a force, an intimidator. However, i still remember back in the mid-90's when the Rocks were playin the Blazers (i believe it was the playoffs). Hakeem turned the ball over on offense, which sparked a Blazer fast break. But he came back all the way down to the other end to block the shot! Has Shaq done that...has he raised his game to that unbelievable level that JayZ750 mentioned? My vote is for Hakeem...his abilities during the mid-90's on both ends of the court surpass those of Shaq today. ------------------
We might want to wait until Shaq gets to be Dream's age in 1994. I'll be interested to see if he continues to improve his game, or if he becomes content with his one championship. I'm hoping it's the latter. ------------------ When you make an assumption, you make an ass out of yourself and umption. visit www.swirve.com
Shaq has a lot of room to improve offensively. Not necessarily to score more points, but to be better in the forth quarter. That means free throws and jumpers. Unless he loses 30 more pounds I don't think he will ever be a great defender. He just doesn't have the quickness (and hand-eye coordination) to be a quality shot blocker, which is a must for a great center. ------------------
