1. He wouldn't necessarily destroy our cap. We could in theory renounce our rights to him. Give all our money to Mo (god forbid) and then resign Dream at the minimum. Mo's going to keep us from using our money on other FAs anyway. 2. Dream was worth very little to us last year because of serious health troubles. I think that if he was healthy enough to consider another year, he'll be worth more to our team than he was last year. That is a net increase in value, despite his advancing age. 3. As for the offense centering around Francis, I don't think Dream's presence will affect that. Francis needs people to complement him and Dream can do that as well as the next guy. And since Francis is a PG, it is especially important that he have someone to pass to that can score. I'm not sure why you insist on wanting to depend on a single person to win games. Basketball is a team sport, not a cult of personality. 4. I think the frontcourt may actually profit from Dream's continued presence. He knows how to play the game and probably can teach Cato and all a thing or two. Cato can still get 30 minutes a game with Dream around. Dream would be taking C minutes from Collier. 5. I don't know why everyone insists Olajuwon is a prideful man. I see that he has much to be proud of, but not that he is proud (that's a side-point). 6. Finally, if Dream wants to play for Vancouver, we won't get anything in return. He'll sign there for whatever they can offer him. Why would Vancouver want to give millions of dollars plus picks or players to have a C who will only be there a year or two? 7. I think Dream will be retiring anyway. he just doesn't want people to be counting him out already. ------------------ Rockets Draft Obligations Summary http://www.gaffordstudios.cjb.net/
I think the issue here isnt an automatic, if dream says he is definitely going to want to play more than this season then we should trade him. But it should definitely be a posibility. Certainly we should at least look and see what Vancouver will offer. If that offer is good enough, then I say we trade Hakeem. At this point, no one will feel sad or unloyal as was the case last year. Hakeem, if healthy, does have stuff to offer. But can he offer more than we can get in return is the question. ------------------ Remember.... You are not really drunk until you must hold on to the grass to keep from falling off the earth.
If the man came be a top 5 center then by all means keep him. If you think that this team can be successful with super guards and sub-par centers then you are fooling yourself. All I can say is look at Phoenix and Seattle in the 90's. You might come back and say look at Chicago in the 90s. Then I would have to come back and say "Is MJ on our team?" 'nuff said. As far as Dream hindering our progress, you might want to ask Magic Johnson if they would have won those Championships from superb guard play alone. Even at 40, the Lakers were a better team with Kareem. Dream doesn't have to be the 1st or 2nd option in the offense. But having him will bail out Mobes and Stevie more times then they care to think about. Hakeem has great hands, great court vision, and is an excellent passer. As good as Cato may become (and is, at times), he will never be as good as Dream is today. That may sound harsh but sometimes I think some people forget just who we have here. What we consider pathetic is still better than the majority of stiffs that pass for centers these days. We will never get Shaq or Mourning or Mutombo so why would you be so willing to just let him go to one of our competitors. If Dream is willing to play for $2 million then by all means give the man 2 million dollars! ------------------ RocketFuel is dead!
I still think a healthy Hakeem can contribute a lot to the Rocks. How old was Kareem when he contributed to the last Laker championship with Magic? Kareem was not as dominant as when he was young during that year but he still contributed a lot. IMHO, having a productive Hakeem still gives us a BIG plus and a better chance of competing for the championship. So the first option should be to keep Hakeem not at all cost but with a reasonable offer. Again the premise is Hakeem stay healthy during this season. I think the reason Hakeem feels he can still play is because with this new system he will be able to conserve his energy in the offense and concentrate more on the defense. Not much banging inside anymore to get offensive positioning. ------------------
When I thought we could trade Dream and get Stevie Franchise I was all for it... I figured with Dreams contract there would be no way we could totaly rebuild a championship team in 3 years. CD and staff stunted more than the bigtymers, shawty. We got Steve, got Shandon, got Mo, we collected picks, we were able to keep Cat, and we still have Dream. Now no one can really argue with the fact that the money Dream is collecting is owed him. Cause the truth is we cant really even put a price on Dream bringing Houston its first Champonship EVER. Let alone deliver 2 in a row. Its to the point I wouldnt trade Dream. And if he can be effecient durning the p.t. RT gives him this season, I would be all for signing somewhere around the min next season. That is, he feels he could still come to play another 82. ------------------ I'ma need more than 6 and a half rebounds a game from the PF
1) Hakeem does not want to go through a season where the focus is on his retirement and not winning a championship, so "not retiring" may be a diversion to hold down the accolades. 2) Anything can happen in an 82 game season that could put an end to any aspiration of playing beyond this year, but if he is capable of playing then we should keep him. 3) I believe Hakeem would work with the Rox on the money part if he wanted to stay in Houston, but if he wants to play in Vancouver so bad, I'm sure they would pay him some big bucks. 4) Hakeem has always been loyal to Houston, and whatever we do we should honor his loyalty. ------------------
Rather than post a bunch of long drawn out BS, let me just say this...let' play the season and see if Mo's is worth "all our money", if Hakeem can bounce back to his form of just 2-3 years ago, and how this team progresses through the season before making any judgements. ------------------ GO YANKEES!!! KICK SOME METS A$$!!! 5 GAMES BABY!!
A lot of Old Stars tried to end their careers with one last shot at glory with another team , Johny U and Joe Willie did it . MJ Bird and Magic all stayed true , Charles Barkley tried two different teams with no Finals success . ------------------ This signature space for rent call 555 ...
Surely any contract we give Dream falls under "bird rights" anyway? Couldn't we just sign Mo, sign Shandon and then ink Hakeem to whatever he wants for a season? ------------------
Doc, as long as Dream is on the roster, we don't have any money to sign anyone else. Don't forget that a free agent counts 1 and a half times their last salary until they sign a contract. Dream would count 24 million, not 16 million, and no, you can't renounce him and re-sign him. Once you renounce a player, you can't resign him for 6 months or something like that. j ------------------
No we can't DrN...to retain Bird rights on Hakeem, we can't renounce him. If we don't renounce him, he counts $20m against our cap. Hasn't anyone been reading Davo's salary page. geeze...exactly how long does misinformation last on this board.
hp, misinformation of this sort is too boring to disprove. 'same old same old', you know. It doesn't matter what happens this year, someone will talk about dit, isos, hakeem needing to retire so we can free up cap, how the barkley trade ruined the franchise, how clyde, mj and dream could have played together... yadda yadda yadda. ------------------ "Everyone I know has a big but... come on Simone, let's talk about your but."
Okay... All Hakeem has said is that he would like to "keep his options open," which technically mean absolutely nothing. So it doesn't really behoove any of us to go crazy over this one statement because all he's really saying is that he doesn't want to add any superlatives one way or the other regarding his future plans in the league. Now, that said, let me be the first to openly declare that if Hakeem makes it clear that he would like to return to play next season, then we should get on the phone RIGHT NOW with Vancouver. It kills me to say it, but keeping Hakeem on this team beyond this season makes NO sense at ALL. First off, he would destroy our cap, thereby thwarting any chances we'd have to land any free agents next summer, and possibly eliminating our shot at re-signing Mo Taylor and/or Shandon Anderson. In fact, I don't even like this deal even if he is able to sign for some paltry sum (say $2 million) and tries to stick it out for as long as his legs will hold him up. His value to the team on the court is diminishing by the second, and will continue to dwindle as his age increases, and the offense becomes more and more rooted around Steve Francis. The fact is that we simply don't need him anymore. Need is the key. When we won the championships, we NEEDED Hakeem. For virtual his entire career, we have NEEDED him to win. But that time has passed. I won't argue that he can still contribute this team, or it's offense. But contribution is different than dependence. Hakeem's continued presence on this team will do nothing but inhibit the growth of the frontcourt, and leave us that much further behind when he finally decides to throw in the towel. But from what I read, even Hakeem himself understands this. I don't honestly think that he'll try to come back to the Rockets unless he DOES take a huge paycut and reduction in his role on the team. I believe that, based on statements he has made recently, that he has GREAT maturity and a true sense of what is right. And yet, he also has his pride. Which is where Vancouver comes in. He's long been vocal in varying degrees about his desire to perhaps play in B.C. someday. So why not? If the Grizzlies are interested, and Hakeem wants to play, let's get him there. And the way I see it, the sooner the better if Hakeem is really serious about playing again. I don't pretend to be a capologist in any sense of the word, but I know there are several ways a deal could be made if both parties were interested. My point is, if Hakeem wants to play, then we should be interested. And if that's true, let's give the Grizzlies a call... ------------------ "There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and STATISTICS..." - Mark Twain - Remember the old days when people used to actually earn their posts? http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum3/HTML/004775.html
I'd say you have a pretty good shot at upsetting some people with this post..... I plead the 5th, and just don't want to argue about Hakeem and retirement any longer. LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!! ------------------ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." [This message has been edited by HOOP-T (edited October 27, 2000).]
It's a long season. Let Dream try to make it thru 82 games and see if he is still talking about playing another season. It's easy to talk like this when he hasn't even had the tip off for game 1 yet. My prediction is he will decide it's time to hang em up. ------------------
