I don't have any issue with that. I have faith in certain things that are not provable, Karma for example. It's when folks recite the bible, talk about prophecies, and such as something that is factual... that really rubs me the wrong way. Also, when I get god blessed at Chik Fil A.
No doubt, I have a distaste for people trying to push their beliefs on people just as well. Like GOD can't handle his own business in getting people to believe in him. But it's also unfair to people who do believe to have people tell them they are fools for believing in something. I think atheist have double standards, but that's just my opinion.
I also believe any one who goes knocking on peoples doors at peoples homes to gain memberships to their churches should by law be allowed to have their face punched.
great, then why are you claiming Christians believe in an old man in the sky who controls everything? Here's my problem of arguing with some atheists... They start off the argument by telling me, Christian, what it means to be a Christian and what I believe in if I'm a Christian. Next they argue against their idea of what a Christian is, and lo and behold their arguments destroy the arguments they've come up with about what a Christian is and believes in. At no point are they actually interested in hearing what my actual Christian beliefs are, and when I make the mistake of saying them anyway, the atheist will often tell me that I don't believe in the bible, or that I'm not a real Christian. So if it makes no difference to you what some actual Christians believe in, then why are you trying to have a discussion? ::edited to get rid of all the Friday end of a work week horrible sloppy mistakes I made after seeing the post quoted::
I can respect ones choice and how they concluded themself to be atheist. I hate how though, with my choice as an Asian america who observes the Christian faith and observance of buddism I'm assumed to be these list of things: I'm automatically a " 'murican", I'm a dim wit who refutes evolution and science, I'm some how lesser of a human because I blindly trust in God and I'm intolerant.
To be fair, many Christians talk down to people of other faiths. When I lived in Texas, many Christians tried to "save" me from my beliefs. I always said, I respect your beliefs, so why not respect mine? Doesn't work. Fact is, people are scared or threatened by other people's beliefs system. Doesn't matter if you are a Christian or an atheist. Everyone thinks they know better.
They fail to realize many people that do believe in GOD also believe in Science. Hell, even a lot of respected people in the Catholic community even acknowledge science plays a huge part.
Very true. I experienced something similar. I had a knock on my door when I was in college. They invited me to their church. I thanked them and said I am Catholic. They told me all Catholics are going to hell. I told them..."wow. You spend all that time in church and have managed to completely miss the point." It's irritating.
the burden of proof lies with the believers. this is why 'faith' is a pre-requisite to religious belief (the power to suspend critical thinking). seems a little brainwash-y to me... why do religions have tax exempt status again?
Because a church has no owners...they're non-profits. There's no one to distribute profit too. Pastors are taxed individually on the money they make, just like anyone else.
I think you hit the nail on the head. When atheists try to disprove Christianity or religion, or discredit it, it is a scary thing. They've always believed that when they die they will go to heaven, and that they have lived a life under the guidance of god and the bible. So to tell them there is no God, no after life, no greater purpose to life is threatening and scary.
As a Christian Pastor I never have been of the opinion that there was a burden on an atheist to prove the existance of God. That isn't logical. I don't think the burden of proof is on a Christian either. My personal belief from study of scriptures is that the burden of proof rests solely with God. If God is going to be 'proven' it is His responsiblity to do it.
Christians shouldn't talk down to anyone, I probably have done just that in D&D but that is just human pride and it is wrong. As a Christian I don't try to save anyone. I talk alot about Jesus, but I also tell people about my grandchildren. Honestly I talk a whole lot more about Jesus.
I think it largely comes from the belittling commentary that comes along with it. Calling it "fiction," or belief in a "fairy tale man in the sky" or any other number of snyde comments I have read over the years on this BBS. Basically, when you insinuate to somebody that they cannot possibly be intelligent and have their religious beliefs, it's a serious turn off. Sometimes in life, it isn't what you say, it is the manner in which you choose to say it.
Honestly when I hear that some incredible percentage of Americans believe in a literal Noah's Ark then I just shake my head. You can't play both sides. That a lot of this has been indoctrinated into society as a widely held belief doesn't make it any less unbelievable. You're trying to set this threshold that regardless of what you believe, however ridiculous I find it to be, that I have to respect it. It's a threshold that a lot of Christians don't have for others but expect from others.
I think people need to validate the sacrifices they make by believing others will suffer consequences. I do not think it's just Catholics or Christians though. I think it's an innately human thing in all of us. Of course. If you woke up one day to find out that everything you believes was utterly false, imagine how you'd feel? Imagine if you found out that everything you thought was real was a lie. That the sun isn't real, that everyone was really just actors in a play to make you feel comfortable? It would not be pleasant. I think it's down right cruel to question anyone's core belief system. Their whole sense of reality is based on it. To try to take that away isn't right. A person has to do that for themselves. And who's to say that any of our reality or beliefs are any better? This whole forum is about talking down towards one another. I don't think anyone here is innocent. Anyway, my father use to say, "the purpose of religion is the search for truth". Everyone searches for their own truth. I respect people's belief in things like Noah's Ark. Do I think it's a bit silly? Sure. But the thing is as an atheist I recognize that I have no explanation for existence either, and this who shebang is quite absurd. Vibrating mathematical strings? Time has a starting point? Space-time is actually made up of particles? Existence spontaneous came to be out of nothing? Might as well believe in Noah's Ark. Reality is far more absurd. There's definitely a lot of closed-minded Atheists out there. But they are the minority. I think most people, of whatever belief system, are pretty quiet about what they belief and are not quite sure what they believe either. Most people are just trying to figure out their day-to-day lives. The Christians, atheists, and whatnot who are actually really annoying are just a small group who have way too much time on their hands.
I don't know you, and I don't know what religious or political beliefs you hold, so I can't refer to you specifically. I also understand that there are many Christians who see their religion as a vehicle for introspection and self-improvement, not a crusade. But we atheists see the active Christians, those for whom their religion is their central motivating force, trying to turn their unsubstantiated beliefs about evolution, homosexuals, condoms/contraception, etc. into the law of the land, and it scares us ****less. These are manifestly harmful policies that are being pursued for reasons that are literally no better than 'A story tells me so' Most Americans can look at something the Hindu caste system with a mixture of pity and disgust. That is a way of living that is making a large number of people miserable for reasons that clearly have zero basis in reality. It's a relic from unhappier times imposed by people who should know better. But tradition and familiarity with their religion prevent many Christians from seeing that their own faith sits on no firmer ground. Most atheists I know have no quarrel with Christians who keep their beliefs private. It's where those beliefs inform action that affect others where we have a problem, which brings me to the answer to your question. You would treat someone who seriously suggesting implementing the caste system in America because the vedas say that the caste system is good with the same ridicule that we treat those who want to teach that the earth is 6,000 years old in public schools. There's simply no other response that is appropriate.
