French question veto Looks like the French are coming around to realizing how irrelevant they become if they veto and we attack anyway. DD
Interesting read. I have no problem with the French who mainly oppose the US stance because: 1) They honestly believe the War is the wrong solution; 2) They believe the War is warranted, yet; My problem lies with those who oppose the action simply to stick-it to the US. I also somewhat understand that many would not be so inclined if it wasn't for Bush's unilateral approach from the start, but at some point the gravity of the situation must outweigh one's disdain for those involved. I absolutely don't like that I'm hearing, esp. from Mexico and now France, that many want to support the US simply to avoid a split with the US. That is very damaging to long-term international relationships. I hope that argument is only being used to overcome those with the wrong motives ('stick it to the US') and not those with 'valid' motives ('we don't believe a War is the answer'). We should not force allies opinions on a topic that many are uncertain of.
Hmm....are they mindful of the harm that can come to the Iraqi people if a war doesn't start and Saddam remains in power for the next decade or longer. I think not.
Surfguy, Exactly. What they really should be saying is that they are mindful of losing their oil contracts with Iraq once the US attacks. Or, once the US wins, they will not be in on the bounty. US agenda. Take out Saddam Set up democracy in Iraq Military base in Iraq Stabilize Middle East Jumping off point for other Middle East nations. Break Opec's back by controlling Iraq oil for 10+ years. All looks good to me. DD
On the other hand, Arab view of US agenda: Attack Muslim Arabs Set up puppet government in Iraq Colonize Iraq first...ME later(Egyptians seem to think their next for some reason...interesting) Control Middle East and Oil Christians populate Muslim lands Respond via extremism and terrorism Death to America/Death to Israel No peace as Muslims will only interpet this as aggressive occupation Two sides to every coin I guess. Quite a contrast to how both sides see things. Damned if you do...damned if you don't...I guess.
Surf, Depends on what happens after the victory. Muslims with self rule and self determination might find it to their liking. I think the US forces need to have a timetable for leaving, and be extremely generous in building up the country after the war. Much like Germany and Japan after WW2. DD
How would OPEC be impacted. I think that's an important question to ask. They can never keep their agreement as is, but what kind of instability will be generated from U.S. cnotrol of the oil.
Phi, I actually think this is one of the main hidden agenda issues. I think the US wants to break Opec's back by initiating a price war. In our society competition is a good thing. DD
If we do what has followed the Afghan War, forget to fund reconstruction (it was left out of the budget!) and toss in 300 million at the last minute (a drop in the bucket), then I don't see a happy scenario playing out. We should be flooding Afghanistan with aid and we are not. Of course, they aren't sitting on the world's second largest oil reserves. As far as we know.
Let's hope the Afghan government we want to stay in power doesn't collapse in the meantime. Then we may have to do all of that over again. We're being very foolish right now regarding that situation.
That's a damn shame if that is what happened. Our government better not be forgetting about Afghanistan. We also have to keep in mind that we don't want to rebuild their entire infrastructure until we are sure the war is over there...which it's not. What good does it do to rebuild a bunch of stuff and then have Taliban and Al Qaeda go around blowing it all up a little later. I think that is why the road reconstruction was so slow in taking off. Last I heard....they had actually started that major overhaul. I know alot of different countries were promising reconstruction aid to Afghanistan. Have any of them come through at all?
Deckard, America has been very loyal in its relationship with Israel. Perhaps our more steadfast ally in the region but they don't sit on any significant oil reserves. Yet U.S. aid to Israel is one-third of the American foreign-aid budget. But I share your concern for Afghanistan.
I don't think the surprise is that the French aren't willing to use a veto. I think the real shocker is that the Russians are talking about it. I mean, face it, Russia needs foreign investment far more than the US does. And whatever oil interests Russia has w/Iraq most be minor compared to the long-term benefits of a close economic relationship with the US. Moreover, the Russians, while they often make petulant noises about how they're still a super power, have far less real power than the French do. The Russians have nukes. Whoopeee. Nukes aren't nearly as valuable as they used to be. They have lots of out-dated tanks. Yay. Like those scare us. Or anybody else. The French have a smaller military, but it's much further advanced. And the French have better strategic allies. And the French are more important to the US, in general. Yet despite all their argument, they're not going to exercise a veto. I'm not sure if the Russians are crazy, or simply holding out for a bargain. They might just be desperate enough to hold out to be bought. Doesn't do much for one's int'l prestige... but they're awfully badly off, right now.
Polyanna, is that you? The US hasn't exactly been to successful at nation-building since- what? Japan? Democracy isn't much of a priority at home, much less in Iraq. The US didn't set up a democracy in Kuwait in 1991, so I wouldn't expect one coming after this war. The military bases we set up in Suadi Arabia during that time are one of the rallying cries of Al-Queda. Expect more of the same. Get ready for a new generation of people in the Middle East willing to do anything to harm the US. On the other hand, I agree with your points about OPEC and the military bases in Iraq. Little comfort to anybody in Iraq, or at home, for that matter, but definitely factors.
