You know...we really ought to give this guy more time to disarm. (note the sarcasm, please) We will gas you when US bombs fall, Kurds told (Filed: 28/02/2003) If war comes to Iraq, the Kurds of Kifri will be right in the line of fire. Iraqi officials have threatened that the moment the first American bomb lands, they will reply with a chemical assault on the town. But in the entire place, there is not a single gas mask to be had, and no detection posts, decontamination centres or safe houses. In lieu of proper protection, the residents of Kifri have been doing what they can to prepare. The women have baked high-energy biscuits that will keep fresh for weeks. The men scour the town's bazaar for extra blankets and plastic sheeting. At night families listen intently to the news on ageing radio sets. "It's going to be hard on the children," said Ali Muhammad Nasir, 30, who lives with his wife, Runak, and two little ones. "But we know only too well what Saddam's capable of." Kifri is barely two hours' drive from Baghdad and at the southern tip of Kurdish-controlled northern Iraq. For years, the town has lived under the shadow of Saddam Hussein's forces. From its southern edge, a big Iraqi military base dominates the skyline. On the left, Baghdad's tanks are dug in and, to the right, is a missile silo. Shells crash into the surrounding fields regularly and at night machineguns open fire without warning. The town's misery has been dragged out for more than a decade. In 1991, its residents were forced to flee for the mountains when Iraqi troops rolled into town. Five years later, the Iraqis returned and they fled again. Mr and Mrs Nasir slept rough for 10 days. In one vicious attack since then, the Iraqis used phosphor bombs that left victims horribly burnt. "What can we do?" asked Mr Nasir, who earns a living as a petrol trader. "I would gladly give a month's salary for a gas mask, but there are none. The mountains are our only chance." As he spoke, his three-year-old daughter Randa sat quietly at his feet. His wife said: "For her, it will be the first time. She is terrified." In Kifri, the signs of war are everywhere. At the town's mosque, Bakar Abas was wearing cheap sunglasses to hide his ravaged eyes. He was blinded by an Iraqi rocket in 1993 when he was aged 11. "Now I spend my days praying and studying the Koran," he said. In the main cemetery, the corpses of Kurdish peshmerga guerrilla fighters lie in neat rows. As we walked between the headstones, a tank shell landed just outside the town. At the last Kurdish checkpoint the officers looked nervous. "The Iraqis have said they will overrun us when the fighting starts," said one. "We are brave, but we can't do much against tanks and missiles." In the bazaar, demand for plastic sheeting, torches, ropes and blankets has soared. Asie Hamid Ali, 32, who runs a stall, said: "Everybody except the peshmerga is preparing to flee for the hills." For some, escape is not even an option. All they can do is stay in their houses and hope for the best. Wafa Kamal, 22, a housewife, wearing a bright pink dress, said: "In my house there are six children and four adults. But my uncle is sick with cancer and cannot walk. So we'll have to stay." "I've bought some bread and sugar. What else can I do? Most of all, it's the gas that scares me. But nobody's told us what to do if it comes. All we can do is pray."
How can they attack with chemical weapons if they have no such weapons? DOES NOT COMPUTE!!! Yea...more time for weapons inspections....my ass.
sorry...here's the link http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;$sessionid$LC3M0JFDWOL1PQFIQMFSFFOAVCBQ0IV0?xml=/news/2003/02/28/wirq228.xml
So, if people don't post a negative thing about Saddam in this thread, are they a Saddam apologist as well?
So, if people don't post a negative thing about Saddam in this thread, are they a Saddam apologist as well? You're either with us or against us. If you don't bash Saddam in every one of your posts, we'll assume you're in the latter group.
RM95 -- i don't think he necessarily meant people here...i think he meant, in the wake of the millions who purportedly protested war in iraq...where is the outrage over this kind of stuff? where are the protests? where is the outcry of world condemnation on this?
I don't think it's necessary to protest Saddam, I bet if you ask the anti-war protesters, 99% of them would agree that Saddam is a horrible person.
i agree..but they have more fun villifying the president...i guess it's too easy to villify saddam...but why not do it nonetheless? who has led to more suffering? a recent survey in some european country came back with only 15% of the people saying saddam was more to blame for this mess than bush. only 15 freaking percent! for a guy who turns chemical weapons on his own people...FOR A GUY WHO IS ADMITTING THE VERY EXISTENCE OF THE WEAPONS HE IS CLAIMING TO THE UN THAT HE DOES NOT HAVE! how much more plain can this be? do people really think he's not a threat to the region? or do they just not like president bush?
I wonder what the Germans will say about this? I mean they used gas in both of the last 2 world wars. DD
These peoples' lives are now in the Turkish Parliament's hands. If they turn us down and we have only a single front in the south, then these people are screwed. If we open a second front, however, the 4th ID, 101st AA, and elements of the 1st ID should be able to roll in pretty quick and take the bad guys out... Either way, we will not let the Turks roll into the Kurd areas unless they're accompanying us. They will nmot be allowed to annex northern Iraq or attack the Kurds there. That's probably what the real beef with Turkey is right now.
damn, no edit... Voice of Iraqis Why don’t antiwar types want to hear them? By Amir Taheri "Could I have the microphone for one minute to tell the people about my life?" asked the Iraqi grandmother. I spent part of a recent Saturday with the so-called "antiwar" marchers in London in the company of some Iraqi friends. Our aim had been to persuade the organizers to let at least one Iraqi voice to be heard. Soon, however, it became clear that the organizers were as anxious to stifle the voice of the Iraqis in exile as was Saddam Hussein in Iraq. The Iraqis had come with placards reading "Freedom for Iraq" and "American rule, a hundred thousand times better than Takriti tyranny!" But the tough guys who supervised the march would have none of that. Only official placards, manufactured in thousands and distributed among the "spontaneous" marchers, were allowed. These read "Bush and Blair, baby-killers," " Not in my name," "Freedom for Palestine," and "Indict Bush and Sharon." Not one placard demanded that Saddam should disarm to avoid war. The goons also confiscated photographs showing the tragedy of Halabja, the Kurdish town where Saddam's forces gassed 5,000 people to death in 1988. We managed to reach some of the stars of the show, including Reverend Jesse Jackson, the self-styled champion of American civil rights. One of our group, Salima Kazim, an Iraqi grandmother, managed to attract the reverend's attention and told him how Saddam Hussein had murdered her three sons because they had been dissidents in the Baath Party; and how one of her grandsons had died in the war Saddam had launched against Kuwait in 1990. "Could I have the microphone for one minute to tell the people about my life?" 78-year-old Salima demanded. The reverend was not pleased. "Today is not about Saddam Hussein," he snapped. "Today is about Bush and Blair and the massacre they plan in Iraq." Salima had to beat a retreat, with all of us following, as the reverend's gorillas closed in to protect his holiness. We next spotted former film star Glenda Jackson, apparently manning a stand where "antiwar" characters could sign up to become "human shields" to protect Saddam's military installations against American air attacks. "These people are mad," said Awad Nasser, one of Iraq's most famous modernist poets. "They are actually signing up to sacrifice their lives to protect a tyrant's death machine." The former film star, now a Labor party member of parliament, had no time for "side issues" such as the 1.2 million Iraqis, Iranians, and Kuwaitis who have died as a result of Saddam's various wars. We thought we might have a better chance with Charles Kennedy, a boyish-looking, red-headed Scot who leads the misnamed Liberal Democrat party. But he, too, had no time for "complex issues" that could not be raised at a mass rally. "The point of what we are doing here is to tell the American and British governments that we are against war," he pontificated. "There will be ample time for other issues." But was it not amazing that there could be a rally about Iraq without any mention of what Saddam and his regime have done over almost three decades? Just a little hint, perhaps, that Saddam was still murdering people in his Qasr al-Nayhayah (Palace of the End) prison, and that as the Westerners marched, Iraqis continued to die? Not a chance. We then ran into Tony Benn, a leftist septuagenarian who has recycled himself as a television reporter to interview Saddam in Baghdad. But we knew there was no point in talking to him. The previous night he had appeared on TV to tell the Brits that his friend Saddam was standing for "the little people" against "hegemonistic America." "Are these people ignorant, or are they blinded by hatred of the United States?" Nasser the poet demanded. The Iraqis would had much to tell the "antiwar" marchers, had they had a chance to speak. Fadel Sultani, president of the National Association of Iraqi authors, would have told the marchers that their action would encourage Saddam to intensify his repression. "I had a few questions for the marchers," Sultani said. "Did they not realize that oppression, torture and massacre of innocent civilians are also forms of war? Are the antiwar marchers only against a war that would liberate Iraq, or do they also oppose the war Saddam has been waging against our people for a generation?" Sultani could have told the peaceniks how Saddam's henchmen killed dissident poets and writers by pushing page after page of forbidden books down their throats until they choked. Hashem al-Iqabi, one of Iraq's leading writers and intellectuals, had hoped the marchers would mention the fact that Saddam had driven almost four million Iraqis out of their homes and razed more than 6,000 villages to the ground. "The death and destruction caused by Saddam in our land is the worst since Nebuchadnezzar," he said. "These prosperous, peaceful, and fat Europeans are marching in support of evil incarnate." He said that, watching the march, he felt Nazism was "alive and well and flexing its muscles in Hyde Park." Abdel-Majid Khoi, son of the late Grand Ayatollah Khoi, Iraq's foremost religious leader for almost 40 years, spoke of the "deep moral pain" he feels when hearing the so-called " antiwar" discourse. "The Iraqi nation is like a man who is kept captive and tortured by a gang of thugs," Khoi said. "The proper moral position is to fly to help that man liberate himself and bring the torturers to book. But what we witness in the West is the opposite: support for the torturers and total contempt for the victim." Khoi said he would say ahlan wasahlan (welcome) to anyone who would liberate Iraq. "When you are being tortured to death you are not fussy about who will save you," he said. Ismail Qaderi, a former Baathist official but now a dissident, wanted to tell the marchers how Saddam systematically destroyed even his own party, starting by murdering all but one of its 16 original leaders. "Those who see Saddam as a symbol of socialism, progress, and secularism in the Arab world must be mad," he said. Khalid Kishtaini, Iraq's most famous satirical writer, added his complaint. "Don't these marchers know that the only march possible in Iraq under Saddam Hussein is from the prison to the firing-squad?" he asked. "The Western marchers behave as if the US wanted to invade Switzerland, not Iraq under Saddam Hussein." With all doors shutting in our faces we decided to drop out of the show and watch the political zoology of the march from the sidelines. Who were these people who felt such hatred of their democratic governments and such intense self-loathing? There were the usual suspects: the remnants of the Left, from Stalinists and Trotskyites to caviar socialists. There were the pro-abortionists, the anti-GM food crowd, the anti-capital-punishment militants, the black-rights gurus, the anti-Semites, the "burn Israel" lobby, the "Bush-didn't-win-Florida" zealots, the unilateral disarmers, the anti-Hollywood "cultural exception" merchants, and the guilt-ridden postmodernist "everything is equal to everything else" philosophers. But the bulk of the crowd consisted of fellow travelers, those innocent citizens who, prompted by idealism or boredom, are always prepared to play the role of "useful idiots," as Lenin used to call them. They ignored the fact that the peoples of Iraq are unanimous in their prayers for the war of liberation to come as quickly as possible. The number of marchers did not impress Salima, the grandmother. "What is wrong does not become right because many people say it," she asserted, bidding us farewell while the marchers shouted "Not in my name!" Let us hope that when Iraq is liberated, as it soon will be, the world will remember that it was not done in the name of Rev. Jackson, Charles Kennedy, Glenda Jackson, Tony Benn, and their companions in a march of shame. — Amir Taheri is author of The Cauldron: The Middle East behind the headlines. Taheri is reachable through www.benadorassociates.com. http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-taheri022603.asp
I'm starting to understand heypartner when it comes to you. Listen up, I can't believe I'm saying it again, but here goes: raising a tiny voice and asking a couple of good questions of our government and our policy decisions does not put that voice in bed with Saddam Hussein. If you think outside of a kindergarten sandbox, this just isn't hard to understand. Or maybe you'd like to live in a nation where everyone says the same thing, does the same thing, and thinks the same thing. Or maybe your suburb is already like that -- I have no idea, and I ain't asking. MadMax, "enjoy" protesting Bush? Maybe a very few people do. Most people who protest are really upset and would rather have their weekend spent with friends and family, would rather not feel compelled to speak out. Disagree with them, fine. And once more, everyone, people protest Bush because he might listen. Saddam is clearly beyond listening to anyone but himself and Satan (re: South Park, the movie). Protesting Saddam is like telling JLo you want her to go away. What would be the freaking point? treeman, I know some have a problem with you, but I really enjoy your demeanor and your posts. Maybe I've missed some nasty ones, but you state your points honestly and clearly. I haven't seen you distort the posts of those with opposing views. ... If you are who you've said you are, I'm glad you're on the US side of the equation. More power to you, and to our troops. May you all get the cooperation from other nations we need. I may not always agree with you or your sources, but who cares. Please keep posting.
B-Bob: I really am who I say I am (a few here know me), I have made some pretty nasty posts in the past (don't post drunk anymore, though - kinda hard where I am), and I appreciate the sentiment. And the humor... makes it so much easier to disagree without throwing mud.
Yeah, I really enjoy treeman. Just like nearly everyone has on this BBS, he rubbed people the wrong way at a certain point, but I value his being here. That, and he kicked my ass in pool one night.
I dunno bro. Chris Baker (and others like him) has made a real good point about why there were no anti-war protests when Clinton was steering the ship. On one of the Sunday Morning shows Garafolo (sp?) was asked why she and Susan Sarandon and all of the other lefty public people did not protest to the war. She said Susan did lead protests but they later did a lexus nexus search and there werwe none. Susan Sarandon or otherwise. I don't know why I am on to the celebrity bullsh!t. Back on track...I think a TON of the protesters protest to protest. They feign, maybe even start believing their own BS and rhetoric, passion.
