Looks as if the Rockets and Suns will fight for the 8th spot in the playoffs. Quite fitting, given that both teams have a star rookie. Rockets/Yao and Suns/Amare. Also both teams have similar point guards in Francis and Marbury. Should be quite a ride for the rest of the year. It will be hard to hold off Marbury, Marion and Stoudemire. By the way, we all talk about how Rudy T sucks as a coach. Im guilty too. But look at the Suns coach. That team should be awesome and they are far from it. Much more talent on the Suns than the Rockets.
I predicted more than one month ago that Sun won't make the playoff. They are more talented than us on the offensive end. But they have no defense. More precisely, they have no inside defense. For all the jumping ability Amare had, he doesn't seem want to challenge shots.
The Suns have been winning with Dan Langhi, Casey Jacobson, Joe Johnson, Bo Outlaw, Jake Voskal, Scott Williams and Randy Brown getting major PT. None of those guys would get any meaningful PT on our team. The Suns have Marion and Marbury, plus a very good rookie. Our talent through 13 players is far superior to theirs. If they make the playoffs, Frank Johnson should be coach of the year.
Marbury, Marion, Stoudemire, Penny, Joe Johnson, Bo Outlaw isnt bad. With a supporting cast of Gugliotta, Scott Williams, Jacobsen, and the Jake's. Marion is a stud and I think he is the difference in the rosters.
Actually I think the Rox have the advantage here - Right now the Rox have an opportunity to pull away this is what the next 10 games looks like for the Rox and Phoenix: Rox: New York (A), Washington (A), San Antonio (H), Detroit (A), Toronto (A), New Jersey (H), Clippers (H), Chicago (H), Phoenix (H), Seattle (A). Phoenix: Milwaukee (A), New Orleans (H), San Antonio (A), Porland (H), Minnesota (H), Golden State (A), Sacremento(H), Houston (A), Toronto (H), Utah (H) But let me add in the Jazz who are sitting pretty about 2.5 games ahead Minnesota (A), Philadelphia (A), New Jersey (A), Seattle (H), Sacremento (H), Dallas (A), Miami (A), Orlando (A), Indiana (A), Cleveland (A) So basically I think the Rox have the easiest schedule of the three. This is where the Rox can make their run to separate themselves from the Suns, and the same time CATCH up with the Jazz. I think they can pull it off!
After adding Amare, Sun's defense (Opp FG%) slipped from #12 in the league last season to #16. Rox's defense increased from #28 to #5. Without a decent center, Sun's interior defense can not improve too much EVEN after Amare improves his defense. Power forward is really not the anchor of a team's defense. The center is and will be always the last line of defense.
I agree Marion is a stud, but he isn't better than Francis. Tskaliades and Penny are not playing, and Gugs has only played 1 game of recent (though he sucks anyway), though I agree they would help. Stoud is good, but he doesn't impact the game they way Yao does. Johnson is shooting worse than EG and doesn't make EG's occasional defensive gem. Outlaw is a hustle guy but no-one would compare his talent to either Mo or Cato. I am not even sure where they dug up Williams--maybe in the Filipino league and Voskal is about at the level of our 15 roster man Collier. Jacobsen is another below 40% shooter with about half the talent of Nachbar--who we don't even allow off the bench. I am sorry, for an NBA team the guys they have been playing with outside of Marion, Marbury and Stoud just plain suck. Honestly, it is starting to catch up to them despite awefully good efforts by their key two guys. I repeat, Dan Langhi (shooting a whopping 39% and 27%[3s] I might add) has been playing significant minutes for them--he could not get off our IR when half our team was injured last year and justifiably so. Phx would love to have our bench guys like Posey/Rice, Mooch, Cato, Mo and Tmo eat up playing for them, they would even give Boki a try because it couldn't be any worse--heck most of those guys the Suns would find a way to start (e.g., Mooch, Posey at the 2, play Mo at the 4 and Stoud at the 5, Cato at the 5) if they had them. IMO it is a testament to the consistency of Marion, Marbury and Frank Johnson that Phx has a shot at the playoffs in the west. Unless Penny, Tskaliades & Gugs come back and come back strong (when then I agree they should be able to stay competitive) the Suns making the playoffs will reflect our failure as much as anything.
Yeah,one guy on NBA2Tonight was saying that Sun has more depth than rockets last night. I was like what? They have big 3 with Penny and that's probably all the talents they have. Penny is not playing right now, and is down the hill anyways. Stoudmire sparks once a while far from being consistent, neithetless to say he doesnt have range for a PF. Marion and Starbury are in a slump right now and if Sun has more depth, why their deep bench hasnt stepped up for them. Props to Sun's coaching staff, they did a heck of job to bring Sun this far this year. Look at Rox, we have Rice and MoT coming off the bench, which translates to depth by any team's standard. Our 15th pick Boki is not even seeing any PT right now. For every position, I think Rox roster is at least on par with Sun if not better, and how about the 7'5 skillful center in the middle, Sun will never have anybody to match that.
Hey...he changed his mind. OKAY. ANYWAYS. Now Rockets and Suns....you are right Mr. Thread Starter. THE ROCKETS AND SUNS ARE SO ALIKE AND SIMILAR. They are so alike. One major rookie. Two other stars. A coach not everybody likes. Neither team made the playoffs last year. And yeah...inconsistency. The Pheonix Suns lost to the Chicago Bulls!!! HAHAHAH! They are like us. We have a way more talented team. REMEMBER...our bench OWNED theirs. It was just 6 days ago. Stephon Marbury is pretty good but has some problems...Shawn Marion is a stud?!?!?!?!? He has been terrible recently. Maybe he got better... I think the Rockets can make the playoffs and the Suns will end up not making it.
Not really, he agreed with the following.... Sorry, the Suns in no matter or form are currently as talented or deep as the Rockets. The caliber of players the Suns have had to start (Johnson, Williams) and bring off the bench for meaningful game time (Langhi, Jacobson, Scott Williams, Randy Brown, Outlaw) just flat sucks offensively (talking a collective sub 40% shooting), sucks defensively, you name it at the NBA level, they just suck..if you catch my drift. The only thing that has kept the Suns where they are are Marion, Marbury, Frank Johnson and steady hustle (if not always steady play) by Stoud--that normally would not come close to getting it done in the West, props to those guys for keeping them competitive.
Scar, you underrate Phoenix's talent when comparing them to the Rockets. First, they have two REAL all-stars in Marion and Marbury. There is no way that both Francis AND Ming make the team if they're not voted on. Marion is practically putting up 20 and 10, for crying out loud. We have no one even close to that on our frontline. NO ONE CLOSE. Hardaway has played the same amount of games as Rice, yet you mention that Phoenix has been without Hardaway, while they would love to have Rice. Hardaway is a much better player at this point in their respective careers. Langhi and Randy Brown are both averaging 8 minutes a game. You say they are getting MEANINGFUL time. Randy Brown and Moochie Norris -- where is the big difference here? Bo Outlaw -- he would help the Rockets. He's better than our starting 4, Griffin. Joe Johnson is shooting about what Posey does. You bring up Casey Jacobsen, I can bring up Terence Morris. Bottom line, I think the main point is that Phoenix's best player (Marbury) has 3 more years of experience than Houston's best player (Francis), and they have a frontliner putting up close to 20/10. The two team have very similar talent and are not surprisingly neck-and-neck in the standings. Don't try to tell me that Phoenix has significantly less talent than the Rockets --- it just ain't true.
hey rjj, your a moron. As for Marion. He is definitely much better than an Eddie Griffin. Marbury and Francis are essentially equal. Penny and Gugs are hurt but they are still on the roster, arent they
Here are the average off the 3 best Rockets (Francis, Mobley, Yao) versus the 3 best Suns (Marion, Marbury and Stoud). The Suns guys average about 1 extra minute per guy. ****PPG RPG APG SPG BPG TPG FG% FT%_ 3%_ PPS HoU 54.7 18.6 10.7 3.38 2.89 8.2 46% 36% 81% 1.30 PHX 57.7 21.9 11.3 4.15 2.32 7.7 43% 32% 77% 1.20 Statistically they are very close-The Suns trio has a slight edge in most raw statistics--points (about 1 per man), rebounds (1 per man), assists (.3 per man), steals (.25 per man) and TOs (.15 per man), the Rockets trio has a slight edge in blocks (.2 per man) and most efficiency statistics-- field goal percentage (3%), 3 point FG percentage (4%), FT percentage (4%) and points per shot (.10). Nontheless I'll buy overall a slight edge to the Suns trio--because though I do think Yao slightly better than Amare (substantially better offensive efficiency and blocks), & Francis is slightly better than Marbury (Francis is much better in all his shooting numbers), this is more than offset than the level Marion is better than Mobley. Still, I think the trios are really close in terms of talent and production. That brings us to the support cast detailed in the previous posts --and I am sorry there is no comparison (at least until the Suns have Penny and Tskaliades and Gugs back and playing OK). Bo Outlaw, Langhi, Jacobsen, Johnson, Scott Williams, Randy Brown, Voskal--except for Outlaw none of those guys would be on our active roster and Outlaw would not get much time over Mo or Cato except in very unusual situations. Look at it this way, the Suns have 3 guys who have been playing for them lately that would get major PT for us (Marbury, Marion & Stoud), we have about 11-12 guys (Francis, Mobley, Yao, Cato, Posey, EG, Mo, Norris, Morris, Cato, Rice and maybe Hawkins too) that would get meaningful minutes on their team. I watch them fairly often, it is true, these other Suns just really suck. I mean if we think Posey, Hawkins & Griff can't shoot, take a look at Jacobsen, Brown, Johnson (who they are forced to start) and Langhi's offensive efficiency and shooting. It is flat horrible, and unlike our guys with shooting "issues" the Suns can't play defense either. And you can say well only 8 (Brown/Langhi) to 25 (Johnson) MPG isn't meaninful--but I'll counter that in just this last week they have had to win or lose games on the shots of Langhi and Jacobsen. In summary, unless the Suns get all their guys back playing well, especially Penny--there is no comparison with the talent of the roster. If the Suns stay with us it is because Francis, Mobley and Yao havn't done the job with a whole lot more around them than with than what Marion & Marbury have (I don't even think Stoud deserves mention--he brings regular hustle and pretty consistent boards--but offensively he is not in the league of the other best 5 guys across these teams).
I think that is a key statement by Desert Scar. From what I have seen over the last few months it has been the Suns troika of stars' consistency that has kept them in games and winning games. It wasn't until recently with Marion's shooting slump that they have had some problems. Conversly, the Rockets have NOT had the consistency with their 3 players (Yao, Mobley, Francis) that the Suns have and thus WE (Rockets) are UNDERACHIEVING in comparison to the Suns who have 2 all stars and one super rookie that seem to bring it every night on a more "consistant" basis. I feel that the Rockets have a better bench, better supporting cast and play better defense but until we get consistant offensive numbers (take Mobley's play as of late as an example) we won't be able to distance ourselves from the Suns. The Suns have some pretty tough games coming up. I think their next 8 games are against opponents that have an over .500 record. And the 8th game is against the Rockets in Houston. Penny is still at least a week away so if the Rockets are going to to put some distance between themselves and the Suns they need to do it RIGHT NOW. This is the time to do it. Remember, the Rockets still have a brutal road trip at the end of March that they have to survive. I would like to see the Rockets be up on the Suns by a handful of games before that stretch. Chris
A lot can happen between now and 3-16 for the Rockets, Suns & Jazz as well. Honestly over the next 7 going into Phx-Hou, Phx will be clear underdogs in 3 (at Mil, at SA, Sac) and about even with their remaining 4 (NO, Port, Min, at GS), they have no easy games at all. Expect no better than 3-4, 2-5 is highly probable. We have some tough games (at Wash, at Det, SA, NJ)--but I think they are a whole lot more winnably than the Suns tough games. We also have Ch, LAC at at Tor--which we need to make sure to win. 5-2 is possible for us, 4-3 would be fine. To me a conservative projection is week pick up a game going into the 3-16 game, we could pick up 3 games with a good tear (really too bad we didn't put away the Knicks). Let us say we gain two on the Suns going into the mutual game. The game is then huge. If we beat them we esentially become up 4 games not just two--because we gain the game plus the tiebreaker. That would put us in good position with the Suns. The Jazz may not be as far off as we think either. They have 9 games in our 8 game stretch--and this is the time where Malone and Stockton's age should show. Say we go 5-3 including the Suns W, the Jazz could easily go 3-6 or 2-7. That would really tighten things up for the 7th spot--as I assume the Lakers are cruising at least to the 6th seed. Jazz schedule through the Phx at Hou 3-16 game---- Fri 28 at Philadelphia KJZZ 14 7:00 PM Sun 2 at New Jersey KJZZ 14 1:00 PM Wed 5 Seattle FOX ROCKY 9:00 PM Fri 7 Sacramento KJZZ 14 9:00 PM Sat 8 at Dallas KJZZ 14 8:30 PM Mon 10 at Miami KJZZ 14 7:30 PM Wed 12 at Orlando FOX ROCKY 7:00 PM Fri 14 at Indiana FOX ROCKY 7:00 PM Sun 16 at Cleveland KJZZ 14 1:00 PM In sum the next two and half week we will no a lot about our team. If Mobley keeps on playing exceptionally I like our chances to get close to the Jazz and have some distance on the Suns (effectively 3-5 games). Of course we could blow it all with a good stretch followed by home loss to the Suns that also costs us the tiebreaker.
