1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Suns in disarray

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Carl Herrera, Jan 22, 2013.

  1. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    16,255
    Likes Received:
    2,037
    Dragic has shown himself to play effectively enough in 2 PG sets with 2 ballhandlers more effectively than Lin has shown.

    While Dragic does need the ball, Lin is almost NOTHING without dominating the ball. Dragic has a little more actual "combo guard" in him, which I think its a better fit on the Rockets.

    (But that 4th year option of his, it messes up flexibity in making moves. I dont think its THAT detrimental, but its still burdensome)
     
  2. rolyat93

    rolyat93 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Messages:
    6,354
    Likes Received:
    460
    Except Gogi is confident in himself and he'll drive the dang ball instead of standing around.
     
  3. andersongo

    andersongo Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,178
    Likes Received:
    156
    And I guess that the man behind Linsanity is not? Fair enough.
     
  4. mike_lu

    mike_lu Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,159
    Likes Received:
    169
    Posts like this just shows confirmation bias. Has Gogi ever played with a ball-dominated SG like Harden? Has he played in a scheme that asks him to play the two extensively? You could say it happened last season before Lowry got injured. Dragic was nothing special then either, playing behind Lowry (check his stats/splits).

    Lin? Did he stand around on the Knicks? Seems like the first time he got a real chance, he took over the whole team off the bench, became the starter, and took over the team until Melo returned, and still played a big role on that team.

    I'll concede Lin isn't a better player than Gogi right now, and Gogi has a better 3pt shot, and might fit in better if the purpose was to let Harden play iso-ball. But the Rockets aren't better as a team with Harden playing iso-ball (and Harden is quite inefficient in this role) ... so I don't know if there's any real good arguments around.

    Let alone a comparison about two player's confidence levels ...
     
  5. sealclubber1016

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    21,476
    Likes Received:
    34,811
    The problem isn't what lin does with the ball, it's what he does without.

    Teams are basically ignoring him at the 3Pt line, in lieu of shadowing Harden and cutting of his lanes. He is shooting 29% while getting wide open shots. And when he does have the ball, he lack of a 3 ball is cutting off his own driving lanes.

    Dragic is struggling with his 3 this year, but his 3's are often contested, and teams don't ignore him. A Dragic/Harden combo would give us 2 attacking guards, which we though we had with Lin, but his 3 ball, or lack thereof is screwing everything up.

    Neither player is much of a distributor, Dragic is a better defensive player. I think the upgrade is significant enough to warrant the player option, because teams would be force to respect Dragic which they simply aren't doing with Lin. Harden would get even better.

    Not that Les would ever do this, but It would make us much better IMO.
     
  6. andersongo

    andersongo Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,178
    Likes Received:
    156
    Dragic has never shown that he is an elite spot up 3-point shooter and defensively a Harden/Dragic backcourt is a joke. Harden and Dragic are very similar in terms of skills and if Dragic was a great catch and shoot guard and that plays lock down defense along with some playmaking, then he will be in a great fit to Harden , but not in the context of Hardenball. Basically, the ideal partner for Harden is Jimmy Butler with a jumpshot.
     
  7. OremLK

    OremLK Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    20,249
    Likes Received:
    18,021
    Dragic is an excellent defensive PG, and his 3P shot is better than Lin's. I would love to have him back, but only if it's a deal along the lines of Lin + a second rounder, or Lin + Royce White (lol), or some such. I wouldn't give up much to make the upgrade.
     
  8. mike_lu

    mike_lu Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,159
    Likes Received:
    169
    Why can't we just accept Harden is better as a 2, and more efficient when he is set-up, and is a great playmaker on secondary opportunities?

    Rockets have played better, Harden has been incredibly efficient, the PG position is better (whether it is Lin or a hypothetic Dragic running it).

    Why must the Rockets play Harden as PG?

    Haven't we had enough of games 3-10 this year, and the recent losing streak? Didn't our winning streak and our last two games show that it is actually better if Harden isn't the PG? Or at least Harden the SG is pretty damn good already?

    I've said earlier that I don't think Lin is a better player than Dragic right now, and Dragic is definitely the better shooter.

    I think factoring Lin's playmaking (creating shots at rim, corner 3s), his defense (rebounds + steals + team defense) ... Dragic is not a significant upgrade to Lin, especially if we just let PG play PG and SG play SG.

    Factoring Dragic's usage and him being a primary option (or rather Suns not having a clear-cut primary option), I don't think he has done that well in Phoenix. I personally thought he would better, and he actually probably still is. Just a difficult situation in Phoenix.

    But then again, the Rocket's PG situation this year hasn't been easy either.

    If we had Rondo or Lowry + Harden ... probably mutiny already.
     
  9. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2000
    Messages:
    22,891
    Likes Received:
    12,685
    Dragic and Lowry can shoot, and they both played well with Courtney Lee and Martin who took plenty of shots on the floor. Nobody would be complaining about Lin if he could shoot worth a lick.
     
  10. andersongo

    andersongo Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,178
    Likes Received:
    156
    Courtney Lee and KMart ....to Harden....Bof, why even bother?! You are right, dude, you're right.
     
  11. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    47,519
    Likes Received:
    19,661
    If Lin could create a shot I wouldn't have a problem with his game. As of now he can't he probes the lane 70% of the time and passes it to the Playmaker (Harden) while spotting up for 3. That's it. What makes it worse is he can't shoot for ****.

    Lin is a jack of all trades and a master of none right now. He either needs to learn how to finish around the rim ala D-Wade or figure out a 3 point shot ala Jason Kidd.
     
  12. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2000
    Messages:
    22,891
    Likes Received:
    12,685
    Or both like Tony Parker.
     
  13. Aruba77

    Aruba77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 1999
    Messages:
    15,635
    Likes Received:
    19,473
    We're paying him anyway. Why not ;)
     
  14. Aruba77

    Aruba77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 1999
    Messages:
    15,635
    Likes Received:
    19,473
    Yeah, but he's overpaid...and for 3 more years. I think Morey probably gives Lin another year to make it work, and after that, he's an expiring contract anyway. As much as I'd like to see a Harden-Dragic backcourt, I think if Morey thought he was worth the money, he wouldn't have let him walk...and that was before Dragic underperformed.
     
  15. OremLK

    OremLK Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    20,249
    Likes Received:
    18,021
    I don't agree that Dragic is underperforming though, his PER is about the same as last year with increased usage. Yeah, he's not matching his fantastic numbers from that one stretch last season, but if he were, he'd be a max player, and he's certainly not getting paid anywhere close to the max. I think he would be performing better in a better situation anyway.
     
  16. da_juice

    da_juice Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2009
    Messages:
    9,315
    Likes Received:
    1,070
    Does anyone else forsee the Suns making a dumb move - like trading for Pierce - at the deadline?
     
  17. jimmyv281

    jimmyv281 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2008
    Messages:
    3,918
    Likes Received:
    1,804
    BRING SCOLA BACK.

    SCOLA > PATTERSON , MORRIS,
     
  18. emcitymisfit

    emcitymisfit Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,258
    Likes Received:
    129
    Glad someone got it
     
  19. philchips

    philchips Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2012
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    2
    They had gogi and then tried to sign eric gordon, does that say anything to you about how disorganized this club is? Two highly paid pg's!
     

Share This Page