Since there appears to be a debate as to whether or not Jason Collier and Eduardo Najera will be solid NBA players or not, I figured we can all write down our views and predictions in this thread. This way, in the future, we can look back to this thread as a reference. My opinions.... Jason Collier - I feel that Collier will be a solid rotation player in the NBA with the ability to score, rebound, set screens and play the inside-outside game. He has not shown what he is capable of in the RMR and first preseason game due to various factors, lack of PT, lack of touches, back problem, etc. Collier's game fits well with the Rockets guards, and the Pryzbilla deal will look like a gem for the Rockets in the long run esp considering the Rockets will receive another selection in the future. Eduardo Najera - Najera plays with a competitive spirit and determination but his game is just not suited for the NBA. He is the classic example of a tweener that will not be big enough to bang against NBA PFs or be quick enough to play the SF spot. Najera will be an end of the bench type player imho that will eat a lot of leather in the NBA. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
Just bringing this back to the top so more people read this... By the way, excellent post MManal. I couldn't have said it better myself. One game is not a career. And if you give that excuse of Najera being good in college too like so many have said, I hope you realize Collier played just as good or better (than Najera) at Georgia Tech, and his game translates MUCH better to the NBA. Give Collier some time, and the Rockets some time too. Things don't happen overnight. In fact, one of the players many compared Collier to, Austin Croshere, took 2 years to develop. I'm not saying that Collier will take that long. But don't see Collier in one or two games and make a rush to judgment on whether or not he has a future and whether or not we wasted a pick. The guy has legit NBA skills and will be a very solid player for years to come. ------------------ Looking for next year's Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
Collier is a mean picker. Good with his butt. Shielding for the roll. I like what I saw. One of my Collier "when will you bash" criteria has been met. He is doing just fine. Now for Langhi. Looked uncertain by doing the one pass too many thing. I saw Langhi get one Rudy 'turn my back' grimace. For those not at the game...Mobley on a whistle continued down and passed the basket for a left-handed bounce of the floor swish lay-up. Cuttino is HOT!!! [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited October 12, 2000).]
I liked what I saw of Collier in the 1st half (that was all I got to see).. good picks, was actively looking to get the ball, seems to be learning just fine, was good from the line too... I think we can say that he will prosper here w/the rox... also if he continues this way I see him being part of the regular rotation... ------------------ Life moves pretty fast, If you don't stop and look once in a while you might miss it!! ... Ferris Bueler
MManal - I think you really hit a home run in the comparison. I think Collier will work well within the Rocks current style. ------------------ GATER [This message has been edited by GATER (edited October 12, 2000).]
I think Najera will be a better NBA player then Collier. Najera has more hustle in his pinky then the entire Rockets team. Rarely do you get a player who plays with such passion, and has skills. Najera is smart, and plays with Fire, and is skilled. Najera will be a better player IMHO. DaDakota ------------------ All you MO-FO's better stop ripping off my lines !!
Najera- possible all-star; Nelson says he's the best player the Mavs drafted this year. So for those of you thinking he will ride the bench, don't bet on it. He will eventually become a starter and probably SOONER rather than later. Collier- I think he is way too slow and clumsy. I do think he has a chance to become a decent backup center but no where near the talent of Eduardo and that is the unbiased truth. He was drafted way too high in my opinion and Rudy wasted a draft pick by taking Pryz and trading him to Milwaukee at 15 for Collier when he could have traded Pryz way lower in the first round for a better player and a better package. Collier was expected to be a late first rounder. I wanna add that Langhi has a good frame for a SF and I think he could be a good player down the road when he gets more minutes. ------------------
Collier- Career NBA role player, maybe able to fit into our system and contribute a few spot minutes to relieve the starters. Najera- Will be a hustle type of quality NBA player. I see his hustle resembling a Dennis Rodman-Jayson Williams type. He willb e a monster on the boards, must learn how to play bigger PFs or quicker SFs. He doesn't have the greatest skills offensively and needs to learn to play NBA defense but he will be a nice NBA player. ------------------
I think needs to lose the "baby fat" and put on like 7-10 lbs. pf muscle AND he needs to put on a mean attitude....I don't want him to be the Nowitzki-Croshere type...Tall & big, yet soft.....Nah, I want him to get into super shape, and grab 10 rebounds per game......Imagine that?? I don't care if it takes as long as 3 years....C'mmon, that's a 3pt shooting, 7'0 foot, Beautiful Jumper/footwork, REBOUNDING MACHINE....where do u get THOSE qualities?? I don't think it's far fetched at all, what he needs to do is put on the muscle, and become a tougher NBA player....He should push around, not GET pushed around... Maybe it seems like I've gotten carried away, in 3 years, I can easily see him being JUST THAT..... ------------------
Collier: Will never be a dominateing player, but will be a good bench player that will stay in the rotation. Will know his spot and not be demanding to be a starter. A happy bench player is a good think, to me. Najera: I agee with the ones that say he will play with the fire, he will also continue the cheap shots that went over at the college level. After a trip around the NBA and enough of those cheap shots land and he gets his reputation. Then will be the time to judge how effective he will be. ------------------
In one word, Jason Collier is a: BUM Najera on the other hand is CBA bound/12th man, just like Gabe Muoneke ------------------ "Oh No..." -Bill Walton in 97 just before Stockton's buzzer beater
najera is not a cba bound 12th man. if anything, collier may be a 12th man. the only reason he is not, is the absence of big men who can actually shoot or rebound in the nba. najera has the one thing that makes a man a man: HEART. he wills himself to succeed. it's not physical gifts. it's desire. it comes from not having anything "given" to you in life. from having to fight for everything. i know eduardo's foster mother, and can attest to the fact that he had to work, work, work as hard as he could to have what he could. the more he worked the more he was rewarded. in fact, he reminds me of a bigger (thus bound to be more successful) mario elie. he beats you with sheer fire and desire (rick james where are you?) he's like the alternator on your car. he's the electrical generator that keeps everything going. the allstar game may be far away from him, but it IS NOT out of his reach someday. collier, on the other hand, is a lug. as in lug nut. yes, that thang you need to keep your vehicle rolling, but you never really notice. he's a necessary accessory to win - that is, a big man who can do some rebounding and shoot a tad. but make no mistake, being just a "lug", he can be replaced by oh, 15 other lugs. ------------------ Essentially the top two players to come out of college the last couple of years are Duncan, Carter, and Francis. - vince
Can I have a link? I refuse to believe that he outright said Najera was better than his 3 first rounders- Alexander, Thomas, and Harvey. Let me see that. ------------------ Looking for next year's Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
MManal, I understand where you are coming from. You see these posts where guys make some kind of knee-jerk evaluation of a player and want to be able to say "I told you so" down the road. Personally, I'm solidly behind Collier and Langhi. However, I just don't think you can really say who will and who won't pan out over the long haul. Sure, some guys will say Collier will be the best and they may be right and maybe he will be a bust. I sure don't know. Most big men take longer to realize their full potential. The ones that don't are exceptional and basically are freaks of nature. Guys with huge bodies that play like guys with small bodies. Having never seen any other poster on this board, I would be willing to bet that there is a huge percentage of these posters that would be dynamite NBA players if they had their same agility in a 7' 270 pound body. They would be exceptional. That's the point. One of the things that I think that is encouraging is remembering comments by Collier, saying he had worked on his foot speed after last season, because he knew he would have to improve that area for the NBA. That is a difficult thing to do, but apparently he did, because CD and Rudy said they were surprised by his running the floor when he came in for workouts. If a guy is willing to work to improve and does so, that is very encouraging. It's also encouraging that Mo said he is going to rebound more, because he knows that is a knock on him. Ditto for Cato working out and laying off the refs and KT reporting slimmer, quicker and stronger. It is difficult to work on more than one or two things to improve an any sport. Collier has three or four years before people really know how good he will be. Maybe its easier to forecast how Najera will do, because he has a different type of body. If he doesn't get hurt, he should be a good bench player. He plays with great determination. He is smaller, quicker and probably closer to his potential. I think the only way he really excels in the NBA is if he develops a long rang jump-shot and better ball-handling skills. Otherwise, he is just too short to dominate inside consistently. All Collier needs to do to be very effective is get a little stronger and learn good footwork and position inside. People say he is too slow, but I think it may be more hesitation and thinking too much about what he needs to be doing and where he should be. Anyway, I think its way to early for anyone to know with any certainty whether he will be a bum or a solid NBA starter. I do know that as recently a today's Chronicle article, Rudy said he is happy with Collier and Langhi. ------------------
Najera - I see him having a Malik Rose hustle type role with teams in his career. Maybe a poor man's Ruben Patterson. Collier - Call me crazy, but I really liked what I saw of him last night! I could see him playing the Carl Herrera type role (in terms of minutes and position, though their games differ) with the team as soon as injuries/retirements demand. Like others have said, if he keeps his quickness, he should be a solid rotation man with the Rockets for a while. An even more valuable one than most at that. How many legit 7', 250 players are out there with 3pt. range and a solid post up game. I can count them on one hand: Sam Perkins, Vlade Divac, and Sabonis. A rare commodity indeed.... ------------------ [This message has been edited by Oatdog (edited October 13, 2000).]
For the record, I seriously doubt the Pryzbilla for Collier swap will "look like a gem". I was on draft night and still am today COMPLETELY DISGUSTED with that trade. Look how happy everyone is that Cato grabbed 10 boards and blocked 3 shots against the Hornets (while not scoring more than a hand-full). THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT PRYZBILLA WILL DO GIVEN A FEW YEARS TO LEARN THE NBA BIG MANS GAME. George Carl is already bragging about how no one pushes Pryzbilla around in the low block. Pryzbilla is a true center (and once Olajuwon retires we will need another defensive force in the paint). You won't make Kenny Thomas and Maurice Taylor (both of whom I like) into what they are not (ie defensive monsters). Hence, the Rockets must count on their center as a defensive stopper! Once Cato is in foul trouble and Dream is retired, do you want to count on Collier for defensive presence? If you think Najera is a tweener, let me tell you he is more of a true PF than Collier is a true Center. Najera at least has "true grit" like John Wayne and plays with hustle and a mean streak, whereas Collier is just truely soft. Collier doesn't have the mean streak and isn't strong enough or quick enough to defend 5s, and he is WAY TO SLOW TO EVER DEFEND NBA PFs. If Collier's shot isn't falling, then he is just a drain on cap space at the end of the bench. I don't have an opinion yet on the Najera/Collier debate, but let me tell you Milwaukee abused us on draft day. Was I the only one that noticed David Stern practically snickering under his breath as he read the news of our trade for Collier on Draft night? I like your posts MManal, and as a Rockets fan I hope your right about Collier's potential. BUT I'M WAY MORE THAN VERY VERY SKEPTICAL THUS FAR. Lets just say this, Dallas drafted Najera at #38 (and they got future second round pick to boot). Is it a fair comparison to stack up Najera and Collier at #15? In other words, if Najera is a bust, what has Dallas really lost? Whereas if Collier is a bust, we LOST PRYZBILLA for sure. ------------------ Be you Democrat or Republican, vote "YES" for the Arena Referendum!
You won't take our word on Collier, but for some reason you expect us to take is as a fact that Pryz will do this? I hate to tell you this, but Pryz could be a bust too. You seem to act like Collier is risky, while Pryz is a sure thing. FAR from the truth. Are you paranoid or something? David Stern doesn't even know very much about these college players. He's just reading off the names. If you think he was laughing, I don't know what to say. He was not, and personally I just find it utterly ridiculous to accuse him of it. And Pryz has shown what? Absolutely nothing. Personally, I've always thought he would be the bust of the draft. But as mentioned earlier, don't tell us about how risky Collier is and all this negative stuff about him and then expect us to treat Pryz like a future star center, which he isn't and is a LONG LONG way from. ------------------ Looking for next year's Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com [This message has been edited by The Cat (edited October 13, 2000).]
Main thing: Collier has something that a lot of big men don't. He's got a solid jumper, and has range up to THREE POINT LAND. With a little bit of work, which any big man rookie really needs, such as positioning, footwork, etc. Collier can develop into a good contributor. If Collier is going to excel anywhere, it WILL be in Houston. The offense is built for guys like him. Also, Collier isnt all that fast, but I think that MOE is right about Collier just hesitating. I mean, this IS his first couple of games in the NBA. ------------------ president of the dan langhi fan club.
If I remember correctly, Stern was snickering because of comments the audience was making everytime Priz's name was mentioned. Remember, he quit the U. of Minn. his senior year, and the draft was held in the Target Center. ------------------ Save our children from the TAAS test: TAAS test report card TAAS test fact sheet
