Um, HP, you do realize there have been multiple people in this discussion. I think you think I just gave up some position I have been grasping to. I haven't.
On it's face value, stating that Robinson had no help is pure BS. And most importantly...YOU know it. I'm not sure why you want to quibble about my stats. A rebound is a rebound whether it's J.R Reid or Chucky Brown. The point that you want to conveniently ignore is that it was not Robinson that got the rebound. I don't care if the Spurs ball boy got 393 rebounds...it was more than any other Rocket. Further, Avery Johnson is still in the league and wants to COACH some day. There are few people in SA, given Mad Max's off court issues and streaky shooting who would have traded Del Negro for him. And both Johnson and Del Negro played major minutes. Now if that's not "help" for Robinson, perhaps a quick visit to the nearest dictionary is in order. And why should any statistic for Rodman be ignored while the presence of Drexler is recognized? Rodman played 1,598 minutes for the Spurs compared to Drexler's 1,300. If it weren't for his tattoos, hair and off-court antics, Rodman would be a lock for the HOF based solely on his defense and rebounding. Or aren't defense and rebounds considered "help"? Rodman made 240 shots in 49 games. That's nearly 5 makes per game which translates to a near double-double for those 49 games. Or since Rodman isn't a scoring machine, it's not "help"? I found your quote that "Because Robinson was getting SO much attention; their numbers ALL increased - ..." both amusing and contradictory. Excuse me...the other players' numbers all increased but they weren't any help? So if they went 0-12 they weren't a hindrance?
You just admitted Robinson "<i>David certainly never stepped in up in the playoffs.</i>" Hakeem is a playoff legend; Hakeems stats in the playoffs soar above his regular season stats like few players in the history of the NBA. Legends are made in the playoffs. That is a fact in the NBA moreso than any other sport. And this is not to say you need to win a ring. It means you need to play step up in the playoffs like all true legends do. What exactly are you still clinging to and not giving up? imo, you made my case with your admission of playoff embarrassments by Robinson. The only argument that you can make after that statement is a really lame one trying to dispell the truism that the NBA playoffs is all that really matters to legend status.
Gater (or should I call you selective stat boy???) DREXLER JOINED THE ROCKETS MID-SEASON YOU IMBECILE!!!!! Also - you might look at who the Rockets started at power forward the first game of the season (OT) vs. the last (which might help explain the rebounding totals you are so proud of) - that was part of the same trade, moron. Furthermore....THE ROCKETS SUCKED UNTIL THE PLAYOFFS!!!!! What the hell are you comparing regular season stats for you excrutiating pile of excrement!!! You want to tell me Del Negro = Drexler?!?!?!!!!! And by the way, ingnorant fool, Rodman is known for REBOUNDING alone - he sucked at defense as a Spur. HE LEFT Horry open for that game winner; he left Horry open ALL THE DAMN TIME!!! Wouldn't leave the lane & risk giving up a rebound, you adolescent punk!!! All I can surmise from you statistical incorhent rant is that you weren't sentient when that series took place. If you were more than 8 years old at the time, you couldn't possibly be making the ridiculous claims you are making: DOPE!!!
Also to everybody: Does anybody not see the illogic of hating the Spurs for : 1. Tanking a season by sitting Robinson; where the Spurs went from 60 to 18 wins. 2. Robinson sucking! If he sucked so bad, why would sitting him have a negative 42 win impact on a season???
Gater and HP, Dont you just love it when someone finally realizes how futile their arguement is and is forced to resort to name calling and curse words? Classis 101 6 7. Thanks for the laugh.
Do any Spurs fans see the pitiful argument of trying to tell other fans they should not dis their team? Spurs fans are ridiculous.
Perhaps in addition to a dictionary to look up "help", you need some math lessons? 1,598 minutes > 1,300 minutes. (FYI ">" means "greater than"). I don't have an ignore list...not even Troy Baros succeeded...I might have to revisit having an open mind... good-bye...end of discussion.
It is amazing and truly sad how serious someone would take a discussion and what they will say in the cloak of anonymity...if he/she only knew...
Also remember that Hakeem NEVER could play David straight up; the Rockets swarmed David constantly with help defense and since bhe had no real help they could focus solely on him. It was sad. Couldn't do that to Hakeem cuz he had all that help on the outside, so David had to play him straight up. Switch positions, and David wins that battle EASILY! Hakeem had TONS of help, but Dave had hardly any. He carried that team to the best record but their lack of talent showed up against the Rockets. Clyde, Horry, Cassell, Elie - that's GREAT help. What did David have? Oh yeah, Viny Del Negro, Avery Johnson and Sean Elliot. That's pretty sad help right there. Is there any question who had the better supporting cast? Hakeem had ANOTHER superstar on his roster, David barely had another All-Star with him. I can only imagine whet David could've done with some of the talent Hakeem had. It's pretty pathetic that Hakeem couldn't couldn't do anything with Barkley and Drexler on his team at the same time. Can you say overrated? Truth is, David was the most well-rounded center of his generation. Only lack of supporting talent and a bad back stopped him from totaly dominating Hakeem. But even so, he MORE than held his own. his achievements are that of the best center of his generation, no doubt, when you consider mitigating circumstances.
You are actually discrediting your own arguement with the absurd amount of subjectivity you are using. Through this subjectivity, you are rewarding Robinson for things he simply DID NOT do, while penalizing Hakeem for things he DID DO. This is fair?
Ooooooo... whiney Spurs fans. It just makes my day. If you can't handle the facts, Jack, you can always play somewhere else.
oh yeah, Robinson didn't have help. What do you call the team in his first 4 years. Terry Cummings (All-Star pre-health problems) Willie Anderson Maurice Cheeks Rod Strickland Sean Elliott (a very healthy Elliott) and later Dale Ellis as Cummings health faded. How come David couldn't make it to the Conf Finals then, much less the finals. Loses first round 3-1 in 1991 to Golden State with that above team. Loses first round 3-0 in 1992 to Phoenix. Fact remains, Hakeem is a playoff legend for his whole career, scoring 26.6 ppg at the 2nd highest FG% ever, crushed the Magic/Jabbar Lakers in his 2nd season, holds the record for most points in a 4 game series, etc. He lost all his guards and Ralph Sampson and kept personally destroying all teams in the playoffs with no help...at amazing numbers.
I can see you can't actually argue against the facts I laid out so you hide behind generalized insults. Would expect nothing else from blind Hakeem worshippers. Fact is, Hakeem had tons of help, mroe than David ever had. I still find it funny that he blew it with that 96-97 team Rockets team.
Watch the games and you'll see his teammates again let him down. Uh, yeah, that's a bit easier to do when you have teammates to take the load off like Hakeem had. Look at the players he played with over teh years - Rapl Sampson, Clyde Drexler, Barkley, Elie, Horry, Cassell - David NEVEr had that much help, if he did look out league! Hakeem had two hall of famers on his team and coughed it up to the damned Jazz! How pathetic.
Go_Spurs_Gooooo_home, your posts on a Rox board are worthless dribble, are you Moochie's cousin? HP for President.
Facts?????? Facts???????????????? Look at these facts: Out of 28 categories (factual categories), Hakeem leads Robinson 19-7 with 2 being even. So based on "facts", Hakeem is superior to Robinson and THAT is why Olajuwon will always be remembered as the better player. Also lets compare supporting casts: Elliot v. Horry - edge Spurs Rodman v. Thorpe - edge Spurs Del Negro v. Maxwell/Drexler - edge Rockets Johnson v. Smith - Even Spurs Bench (Cummings, Rivers, Reid, Person, etc.) v. Rockets Bench (Cassell, Elie, Herrera) - edge Rockets So at best, the supporting cats were even. The reality of it is, Hakeem made the team around him better, more so than Robinson. And please dont argue that "Robinsons teamates let him down". Great players succeed despite those that are around him. That is what legends are made of. Also, Hakeem won 2 titles being "the man" while Robinson could never get it done.
yeah, watch out league. David Robinson would have reached the conference finals more than once had he never been the only center in the history of the NBA to get double-teamed in the playoffs.
Thought of two more important categories: Individual playoff matchup - edge Olajuwon Team playoff matchup - edge Olajuwon Score two more for Dream!!
