yep, the Rockets are like 3-8 in games decided by three points or less so those 4 turnovers a game are wasted possessions that are very costly.
When Francis can drop 11 dimes a game to offset all the turnovers, then you can say he is in that company. Stockton for instance may have averaged 3.2 to 3.5 TO per game some yrs but he also offset that with double digit assist seasons. Stockton's lowest Ast to TO ratio is 2.8 (rookie yr), every other yr its been over 3.
Ummm...didn't all those guys lead the league in assists at some time. And each of them have been to the Finals. Until Stevie makes it into the playoffs, I don't think you put him in the same breath as those guys.
Steve Kerr and Derek Fisher barely touch the ball. They aren't counted on to score. It's easy not to make mistakes when you have no responsibilites. Basically you don't want a player who doesn't make mistakes, you want someone who will rarely touch the ball. Why does it matter whether the guards turn the ball over or not? Why not look at the team turnovers. A turnover is a turnover, whether a guard turns it over or a big man. San Antonio turns the ball over more than the Rockets. Sacramento just a bit less. Indiana, Portland, and New Jersey the same. You say the Rockets won't make the playoffs because their guards turn the ball over too much, yet as a team the Rockets are right with several high-seeded playoff teams in terms of turnovers. If the Rockets don't make the playoffs it won't be because of turnovers.
Amazing that you could make that leap from such a meaningless stat. We could have won those games if we had made one more wide open shot. A couple of free throws. Committed one less stupid foul. Furthermore if we ended up winning those games, we could've become overconfident and lost another game we otherwise won. See, it's easy to play that game.
Why don't you guys get it? It's not JUST about assists or JUST about TO's. It's about ASSIST TO TURNOVER RATIO. 6.1 assists is decent when you're scoring 25 a night, but not if you're turning it over 4 times. I agree with MManal that we need to change our backcourt. But I disagree that we won't make the playoffs if we don't. Personally, I think Eric Snow would be brilliant for this team. GUESS WHAT? Philly is looking to trade, and one of their MAJOR needs is a big man who can rebound/block shots. I'd love to see a backcourt of Eric Snow at PG, Steve Francis at SG, and Cuttino Mobley on the bench. When you think about it, Francis' asst/TO ratio would improve at the 2 because he'd handle the ball slightly less and there would be less pressure on him in the passing lanes. Combine that with Eric Snow's great Asst/TO ratio, and you have a very good backcourt in that area. Bring Mobley off the bench, and you have a sparkplug who can play alongside Snow and alongside Steve. But would it be worth giving up Cato? Your backup C leads the league in rebounds/minute and rebounds/48 minutes (Rebounding efficiency). No way anyone can replace that. How valuable is it? Is Cato and Moochie worth Snow and a bad contract?
Freak, Im glad you brought up the team stats. Every elite team in the NBA this season with the exception of San Antonio ranks very high in two key stat categories, Ast to TO ratio AND FG% against. Dallas, Minnesota, Sacto, Portland are all top 10 in Ast to TO ratio. The Rockets rank about 24th in this area. The point about Kerr and Fisher not handling the ball in the flow of the offense as much exactly makes my point. That is the definition of a ROLE player. The reason this offense is so up and down and lacks identity is b/c players like Mobley and Moochie handle way too much and simply dont play in a cerebral fashion. Role players like Kerr and Fisher know when to give it up and when to play off the stars. This goes along with the saying that "too many cooks spoil the broth". The offense needs to concetrate around Yao and Francis and not have other guards like Mobley and Moochie ruining the offensive flow.
I think you get me wrong. I'm not saying turnover is the only single factor for the outcome of the game. My point is turnover is not a meaingless stats as you said in your post, it is just as important as other "meaningful" stats and should not be overlooked.
The assist to turnover ratio will never be amazing for Francis while he is running Rudy's offense. It just isn't geared to produce huge assist numbers for the point guard. Bibby didn't put up huge assist numbers for Sac either(5.7 apg), but that didn't stop him from getting a big contract. Rudy says that he is tracking Steve's decisions - and I think that they are getting better this year. Maybe we should just be happy with a guard that makes good decisions and scares opponents senseless?
Sane, Ive read on various posts of yours that Eric Snow is on the trading block. Im still wondering tho why the Sixers would move him? The guy has been a very solid and consistent PG for them for the last 4 seasons and is playing a career high 39 MPG for them. It seems to me that much of what they do would completely fall apart if they dealt Snow. In any case, Snow would be an ideal addition to the Rockets.
Oh no, don't get me wrong MManal. Eric Snow is on MY wishlist. he is by no mans on the trading block. But he surely isn't untouchable. The way I'm looking at it is, if they make that deal with us WITHOUT giving up Coleman, they can go on a SOLID run. Why? because they can then trade Coleman for Kenny Anderson. Sonics get a PF, and Philly get a PG who's playing very very well. Cato/Macculough KT/Van Horn Van Horn/KT Ivy/McKie Kenny/Mckie/Salmons I think the difference between Snow and Kenny Anderson is not even near how much they gain from adding Cato to replace Skinner, Art Long, and Mark Bryant type players. ESPECIALLY now that Macculough is out INDEFINITELY. I think it would also give them wiggle room in the offseason to tweak the roster with them expecting a new coach.
Oh, and btw, the Sixers fell apart 20 games ago and are dropping steadily out of the playoff race. Can they really keep up with Coleman and Skinner as their C's? With KT playing hurt?
I've already pointed out that Sac and Portland produce as many TOs as the Rockets. The assists are what is making the difference in that ratio. To get assists you need guys who can score immediately off of the pass, which the Rockets don't have. Even when they did have those guys in the title years, they STILL didn't get a lot of assists. So as long as they run the type of offense they do, they're probably not going to have a great assist/to ratio. It doesn't matter. I don't know why people harp on the stat. The reason the offense is up and down is because one of their go-to guys is a rookie who missed training camp and the pre-season, the small forward just joined the team mid-year, and the power forward is 20. It has nothing to do with assist-to-turnover ratio. Everyone else will handle the ball less when Ming becomes more dominant. Mobley has been handling the ball less the past few games anyway. To suggest that ANOTHER trade at this point in the season will actually HELP continuity and increase the team's chances of making the playoffs THIS year is a little far-fetched, to say the least. The last thing this team needs right now is MORE shakeups. You're never going to see any continuity if you keep making changes.
I think I would be more scared of Francis guarding the Kobe's and TMac's of the league, than of him turning the ball over to much. The ideal situation would be to find a guy who could run the offense and guard the bigger guards in the league. Name me a guy who is available and can do that. If you can't than there's really no point to this thread. I mean do you really think we would be a lot better if Steve Kerr was running the team with Francis at the Offguard. Somehow I doubt it.
This is the whole point that is being made. The reason there are not enough assists in this offense is b/c you have THREE guards that have games based upon scoring off the dribble. That is bad complements of talent. Winning teams dont have that many guards that need the ball in their hands to be effective, this is why this team lacks identity and consistency. Winning basketball is about moving the ball around and getting easier shots, not for every player to have to force something against a defender. During the championship yrs, the Rockets were a MUCH better team assist to TO wise. In the starting linup, the only players that used to score outside of the offensive flow were Hakeem and Clyde. The role players used to get their baskets off assists. Btw, I am not guaranteeing if the Rockets make a move before the deadline they will make the playoffs, but I think it is worth the risk b/c this team as is DEFINITELY will not. Do you think this team as is will make the playoffs?
MManal, Yes I think we can make the playoffs like this. We need to play 2 games above .500 the rest of the season. The problem with this team is identity also. Although we still haven't found it, we've come a long way. We have better F's than we had in the first 40 something games. MoT is better than any F in the first 30 games. Posey replaces Rice, and Rice has a place on the bench, meaning Hawk is replaced by Rice and Posey is in place of Rice. Mooch is playing very little. So if Cat can show more of what he did in the Wolves game (slightly more), I think we can make the playoffs based on talent and effort alone, despite the obvious structural problems with the roster.
Gary Payton helped his team to playoffs every season he played (maybe until this season). John Stockton was the same. Jason Kidd made the playoffs in his 4th season. Steve Francis is yet to play a playoffs game in his career. You might argue that he didn't have much of a supporting cast in the past, but he has Yao Ming now but is still in danger of missing the postseason again in his 4th season. If your numbers don't help your team win, what's the point?
