Rockets from a historical perspective

Thank you for paraphrasing it! I am not competent enough to understand your complex and interesting debate!

Well...having a trade to get a good player would be nice. That is if we do not give up any of our players that we are trying to build around...our core players...FOR EXAMPLE. YAO MING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND STEVIE FRANCHISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would give up Cuttino Mobley IF we got somebody who is an All Star or deserved to be an All Star OR WAS A REPLACEMENT FOR SHAQ IN LAST YEAR'S ALL STAR GAME. James Posey...I would try to keep him. I would give up anyone besides Steve and Yao for someone better. Only if the Rockets benefit.

But that won't happen.

So we have to be satisfied with all we have. We can develop some of our younger players. Yao can't get any worse. He can still develop. He is only 22 and is already owning. It usually takes 3 years to start dominating. Like Kobe...and Jermaine O'Neal and all those good nice players. Eddie Griffin can still develop. Mobley will mature...Steve will get it more. Terence Morris will know his role. Posey will do his stuff. Cato will represent his All-Quasar Status. I think we can win a championship if we develop more chemistry and play like we have been playing.

We can do it!

BUT...maybe we need some more coaches.

We can make history!

 

You claim that

1. the best player in the NBA will always win a championship unless outplayed by another #1 player.

I claim that

2. no NBA #1 player has ever won without a second elite player.

Alright, let's break it down.

Has your statement (1) ever been true without (2)?

No because everyone of those championships happened to have a second elite player (or multiple elite players).

Is this a coincedence? Would Kobe not be a great player without Shaq? Would Dr. J not be an elite player without Malone and vice a versa? Would Kareem not be an elite player without Magic?

The answer is they wouldve been great regardless. Of course you play better with better teammates but they wouldve been great players independently just like McGrady is at Orlando.

For example. Was a 23 year old Tim Duncan better than Shaq in 1999? No. However, in 1999 David Robinson was better than Kobe Bryant.

Obviously Tim Duncan is better today than he was 3 years ago. However, his team is now worse.

Do you believe that back then Tim Duncan can outplay Shaq but can't do it now. The difference is Shaq's teammates are now better as Kobe Bryant has become an elite player while David Robinson is on the brink of retirement.

 

Thanks Heypartner!

After re-reading both of your posts, you both make valid argumenets. I think the FUNDAMENTAL dispute is based on the time frame.

I think your argument is absolutely correct in the long term. Where as riet is accurate for the short term.

Just my 2cents.

 

RIET,

What you don't get at all is every team pretty much has a star. Match any of them with a legend, and history will report them has an "elite" 2nd player. Take their legend away, and they are just a star.

<b>Let's place legends on the worst teams last year</b>

Magic goes to Golden State rather than Dunleavy and you really think history doesn't elevate Jamison to Worthy status, Jason Richardson to Scott status, and Magic never wins a title. Dampier, Foyle, Fortson and Murphy don't become historically reknowned perfect role players. nah, Magic would need Jabbar to win it.

Dream in his prime go to Chicago instead of JWill, and he can't win rapidly with Rose et al, rather than Drexler et al.

Bird goes to Memphis and Pau, Williams, Battier, Swift aren't enough for Bird to win it.

<b>Now, let's replace HOFers with legends:</b>

Replace Webber with Bird and the Kings still don't have ring??

Interchange Drexler at Portland with Jordan, and MJ never wins...and Drexler/Pippen win instead...since Drexler/Jordan were interchangeable.

Replace Karl Malone with Shaq starting in 1993 and Stockton still never wins, because Malone and Shaq were both equal studs, or that Stockton is nowhere close to Kobe's league??

Interchange Ewing with Dream in 1994 and Dream loses to Ewing's Rockets in 7, because Dream and Ewing were equals.

Replace Payton with Magic starting in 1993, and Magic still can't get Seattle over the hump.

<b>Every serious contender generally has more than one player; it is the #1 player who makes the difference.</b>

 

I believe you. I've seen Cousey's numbers.
.... But the overwhelming majority of Russell's championships were acquired [/i]during[/i] the 1960's ... a decade that saw Wilt Chamberlain (50+% career scorer), the Big O (48% career shooter), Jerry West (47 % career shooter). So the Celtics had to do it with defense since Russell, havlicek,heinsohn all shot below 45% career-wise.