Looking at the current Rockets' roster, I was wondering: 1. How many championship teams had a point guard as their leading scorer? 2. How many championship teams had a gunner as their 1st or 2nd scoring option? I consider a gunner as a Vinnie Johnson, Chuck Person, Reggie Theus, Vernon Maxwell type player. 3. How many championship teams had a guard as it second leading rebounder? 4. What is the assist per game average of the last 10 championship teams? 5. From a historical perspective, can this current roster contend for a championship within the next 3 years or become a perennial playoff team?
Combine the championships of Oscar Robetson and Magic Johnson, then divide that number by two, and that's how many championships the Rockets will win with Steve at the Helm and Ming in the Paint. Perennial playoff team is an understatement for this squad. Go Rockets!!
Off the top of my head, 1. In the same year? Magic did it once. Isiah, once (but <19ppg). Cousy. Almost Jo Jo White by .01 ppg. 2. Byron Scott led the Lakers in scoring in '88. Was Sharman considered largely a pure shooter/gunner? Can't think of others. I consider Barry more than a gunner. 3. Surely Magic. Did Oscar do it with Jabbar? I doubt Jordan ever did. 4. Don't know 5. Are you asking, "Can dominate centers win a title?"
OKAY. Now our leading rebounder is Yao Ming. Second is Kelvin Cato. And also...in three years...we can win the championship. If we can acquire one more good player, it will be even easier. But I am positive that the Rockets will win. IN 3 YEARS, that's plenty of time. If I'm still alive in 3 years, I will be so happy to see Yao dominating and Steve owning and Mobley under control and Griffin smiling and scoring and rebounding and blocking and Posey having 5 alleyoops per game as well as 10 steals. Imagine...our team could dominate. We need time...and maturity. We can do it!
No. I believe we can count on one hand the number of championship teams that had guards being the first and/or second leaders in rebounding, scoring and shot attempts. I've heard Cat and Steve's ambition of being the Thomas/Dumars or Cheeks/Toney of their generation. I think that is a mistake, they should focus on becoming the Kobe/Shaq, Magic/Kareem or Clyde/Hakeem of their generation. Each of the above combinations had great role players (Worthy, Scott, Paxson, Horry, Thorpe, Smith, McAdoo, Nixon, V. Johnson, etc). I think Mobley can become a great third option (our Worthy) and pivotal role player in the Rockets' upcoming championship runs. However, can his ego handle being a third option? He will have monster games, however, it might come every 3-5 games and not on a nightly basis. You can have a dominant guard (singular) and center. However, two guards will not get the job done. Why settle for Dumars/Thomas or Cheeks/Toney? If this team realizes the concept of team play, they can be this generation's Magic (Steve), Kareem (Yao) and Worthy (Cat). I wish this team would adopt two of Hakeem's mottos: 1) "Stay hungry, stay humble" 2) "You have to respect the post" Go Rockets!
Not to argue with you wrt the Rockets, but this is a matter of historical accuracy, right? btw: Frazier led a champion in scoring as a PG. Frazier/Monroe Dennis Johnson/Gus Williams Magic/Scott Isiah/Dumars all won as tandem, primary scorers. Rick Barry won a title with no go-to center. Besides, your above quote is a much bigger criteria. Plus, your data really should include both teams in the Finals, anyhow...restricting it to winners restricts you to too few teams based on legends of the game. And when you look at teams in the finals without centers, it is huge. Drexler/Porter (twice) Kevin Johnson Reggie Miller Sprewell/Houston with a fading Ewing Dennis Johnson, Gus Williams, and Downtown Freddie Brown made the finals before winning it Westphal and Alvin Adams Jason Kidd this year is leading his team in scoring Oh, and Scott was not a role player. He was the leading scorer at 22 ppg, or something, in 1988.
HP, No argument here. That's why I wanted historians/ longtime NBA viewers. When you consider Steve and Cat are first and second in shot attempts and minutes. While Steve is also tied for second among the rebounders. The frontcourt contributions pales in comparison to the backcourt. So can this team grow into a champion while being so dependent on the backcourt and its 43% shooters? The career shooting percentages of the guards you mentioned: Dumars (46%) Isiah (45%) Magic (52%) Scott (48%) Frazier (49%) Monroe ( ?) Clyde (47%) Porter ( ?) Dennis Johnson ( ?) Gus Williams ( ?)
Golly! 3% difference!!! And...buddy. Times have changed. But you are right. We can't win it with guards. BUT also..anything is possible! And yao will dominate and get even more rebounds! Eddie will continue to improve and get more rebounds! Mo Taylor...if he stays...will get more playing time and hopefully get more rebounds! Cato will continue to have rebound festivals! I think our team has great potential. We are led by guards. But the the wins are being led by Yao now. He and Steve will share the duty as leaders together. I think they fit perfectly.
Its only 3%. But the quality of the historical guard play is above and beyond our duo. I won't even attempt to compare basketball IQ, defense, leadership and other intagibles that allowed the historical combinations to succeed. Anyway, I agree, this team has great potential. I just hope they fulfill that potential. Does anyone remember the 3Js (Jason Kidd, Jimmy Jackson and Jamal Mashburn) and how selfishness and bickering destroyed a team.
I got a statistic question for you. Name a championship team whose leading scorer wasn't a 50% shooter.
Very good question. I've always thought that you needed a dominant player that you could count on night in night out to win a championship ... the guy who can put the ball in the hoop when you needed it most (a 50 % shooter, in other words). I'm very interested to see the responses. (on a side note: People used to think Shaq would never win a championship shooting below 60% from the free throw line ... I always thought that was a pretty silly idea since shooting 50% from the free throw line is as good as shooting 50% from the field.)
If there was a championship team that didn't have a 50% shooting go-to guy, it'd have to be a team that played some great defense. Maybe the Detroit Pistons or some of Bill Russell's Celtic teams ... somebody do some checking here.
Once Big Game James got to La, he became their leading scorer for the most part. James vs Cat is Crazy. James got there in 82 and got hurt in 83, but after that he was the primary scorer because Kareem was getting old. If the Rockets can become like Kareem and Magic, i'd be surprised. They could become a great team with Steve and Cat learning to use everyone and Ming getting better. This is still a big mans game. Other than Thomas, there haven't been many guards to win rings in the nba. Jordan did it, but we're talking about probably the greatest ever. I doubt Francis or any guard can come close to mj, so its safe to say we need great play from a big player.
how many 7"5 centers have won a championship? i do not care for history, i want yao to be more in the offense. but not because of history, and i love francis game. we played great the last couple of games, be glad, and just enjoy
I agree. Using history to look at this team(or any other team) isn't useful at all. Each championship team is unique. The times they play in are also unique. What we need to do is look at how this team can match up against the current teams, not the past ones.
Before the 1960s it was uncommon even for a guard to have a shooting percentage as high as 40%. The 50% shooting percentage is a relatively recent phenomenon. Don't believe me? Check out Bob Cousey's lifetime shooting percentage. Dave.
Dantley was traded. Aguirre finished that year as leading scorer below 50%, as was Isiah. It is a defense thing, imo, because the league didn't really play defense in the 70/80s like they did in the 90/00s. Kobe shot 45% last year as leading scorer. And unless Duncan wins it, there won't be a 50% goto guy this year, not really even close. What does that mean...imo, nothing, as Nowitzki is clearly the best pure shooter, and so what does it prove if he can't shoot 50%. More to show the 50% barrier is not that indicative of anything: Jordan shot below 50% in his last four rings. 46%, 48%, 49%, 49% versus being well over in his 1st two. Before that: Isiah Aguirre Bird was another, twice. Gus Williams Bobby Dandridge 47% Dave Cowens, Jo Jo White at 47/45% Rick Barry 46% Havlichek 46% Frazier
