Sorry, logic doesn't work with WB. Do you really expect him to pass up the opportunity when the game is on the line??
Rather than looking at Westbrook vs Harden as players, I think what OKC really screwed up on was which player is better on that team. Westbrook is a bad shooter. Harden is a good shooter. Westbrook needs the ball in his hands to be effective, like T-Mac or Francis. Harden can play off the ball fairly well. I actually believe that if we had traded for Westbrook, he can easily be putting up similar numbers here. But As for building a team, he's harder to build around. In that sense it does seem like last season, the Thunder simply "out-talented" all other teams in the west rather than playing great team basketball. For Christ sakes their 3rd banana last year performed at a superstar level on a per-minute basis(22/4.5/4.5 with godly efficiency if extrapolated to 40mpg).
They went to finals last year because they played well together. Especially with Harden + Westbrook (+22 efficiency). Harden was a big part of their success. , Team was +7 with both KD and WB and Harden, and only +3 with KD and WB on the floor. Westbrook needs to get 20-25 shot per game to look good on the paper whereas KD and Harden needs 15 shots. That's a huge difference considering Westbrook is NOT the best player on the team. Neither is he a playmaker. It takes a huge part of Scott Brook's system out of rhythm. Durant should be the one taking 20+ shots. If Westbrook can contain himself to 15 or less shots per game with 8+ assists, he'll be an all star for a long time.
It's hard to believe that WB is a top 10 player in any possible scenario. TOP 10 PGs maybe. Definitely not TOP 10 overall. WB is an elite scorer. Not elite player. I think there's some difference.
He's a 2-time all-nba 2nd teamer (made that in his 2nd/3rd yr in the league). But I supposed that's something that isn't very hard to achieve.
That's flat out wrong. This isn't baseball where fat,slow, non athletic guys can have long carers. I heard the same thing about clyde,dominique,even amare played and had long careers.Know why? Maturity. With good coaching and desire, the game slows down and a lot of guys like westbrook learn to really used their explosion. Tony parker today wasn't the same tony parker his 4th yr in the league. Even why guys like that lose a step,they are still more explosive than most guys. As long as they don't keep having lower leg injuries,they're fine.
Well I think in the west Lakers and Spurs are the favourites, and id put it even money at clippers, grizzlies and thunder to be honest. In the West I think Boston will pick it up as the season goes on, and knicks should definitly be in the second round this year.
Those achievements won't make him Top 10 alone IMHO. There are multiple 2 timers in ASGs that aren't discussed in the Top 10 class. But I get it. Top 10 is heavily opinion-based. My opinion of top 10 is as much irrelevant as anybody's on this forum. Regardless, WB is a good player, but he'll have to go extra mile to be the greatest in the league. Bricking shots won't be enough. my 2 cents.
Yes, it would be hard to do given that Deron Williams and Steve Nash made the 2nd teamer in Westbrook's 2nd year.
Just like the knee jerk thread last year of trade westbrick for kyle lowry,let's keep this up for a couple of months and monitor the progress.
Well considering both of them haven't won a ring yet what's your point? The problem with you is its always player vs player with you, like these guys always operate in a vacuum. This isn't baseball. If OKC had Lowry instead of WB, then they'd have a worse player. But Lowry's 6M contract would mean they got to keep Harden on the squad, in fact, we would have probably given up both Lowry and Lamb and still called it a good deal. WHich is better, KD+Harden+Lowry+Lamb? Or KD+Harden+WB? Plus, you always forget WB's bonehead factor. WB being extremely talented he'll always have good moments, but he's already cost the Thunder one playoff series so far, and he cost the team this game as well.
Elite pgs are plentiful compared to most other positions in the league. You just named 6 pgs of the top of your head, and that's not even including Irving who's elite last year, Lawson, Lowry, Nash and Steph Curry who's borderline elite. Compare that to the other positions: C: DH-> Only elite C PF: Bosh, TD/Dirk/(old), LMA (???), Love (???) SF: Lebron, KD, Melo (???) SG: Kobe (old), Wade (injured), Harden
of course, you know that you are being controversial by naming Harden as a clear top 3 at his position and no one else even in the conversation.
Irving was elite last year? Wow. His defense is beyond atrocious and I don't want to talk about what his team's record was. Steph Curry and Lowry last year were borderline elite? Do people just look at stats? What is this madness? And who cares if one position has more elite players than others? Does that make being elite at the PG position being any less valuable? The 90s had a plethora of elite centers and you must had one to win. The NFL now had a plethora of elite QBs and you must have them to win. What's your point? Just b/c a position has a scarcity of elite players doesn't make it a more valuable position to have on your roster. Harden also cost his team a playoff series, and the most important one that is: The finals.
If Westbrook had the game which Harden had last night vs. Nuggets there would be 5 new pages how much better player and what big mistake OKC made. Let's be real here. Hardin is two trick pony, all he does is go to the rim and finish with left hand after PnR or shoot 3's. That's it. If you trap him or switch on PnR, he is pretty much useless. I watched Kobe after watching Harden last night and you really start to appreciate players who can drop 20 without showing you same move twice. Westbrook is most versatile scorer behind Durant, Kobe, Melo and maybe Dirk. And all that talk how much better passer Harden is, he never averaged more assists per 36min than Westbrook.Westbrook's assists-to-turnover ratio this year is 2.55 compared to 1.05 by Harden. BTW, OKC didn't trade Harden, because they didn't have money to pay him. Scott Brooks indicated that he was a bad teammate("James was a good player, don't get me wrong,” Thunder coach Scott Brooks told the Oklahoman. “But he wasn't Dr. James. He wasn't helping the group stick together. "). They were also disturbed by his yacht and birthday parties. Westbrook left 11M on the table. Ibaka left 8M on the table. He wasn't ready to take 6M shy of max, which pretty tell you his will to win. He cares more about money that he cares about winning and that's not franchise player.
I'm sure that both Durant and Westbrook would gladly come off the bench, reduced role AND reduced money. I'm sure both Durant and Westbrook would be completely fine with this. Hey I'm sure Kobe would love to come off the bench. All the great players are so happy to settle for less! I'm not even going to comment on your two trick pony non-sense.
