You are playing the hindsight card. Would you rather have a top 5 pick or the #14 pick in any given draft given the option? The way the NBA is made, you need superstars. Superstars are HARD to acquire: See Daryl Morey last 3 years. (Harden may not even be a Superstar, a great player yes, but maybe not a superstar). Superstars are found at the top of a draft. Regardless this course of action is the same as "tanking." You trade all your assets for a star or you trade all your assets for cap relief and make your team terrible. Most of the time it is easier to get a top 5 pick than a James Harden. If Harden decided to stay with OKC, we may have had another 5 years of #10-#14 picks and constant frustration.
What world are you living in? What superstar comes here for Harden, Lin, Asik? We still are going to be a marginal team this year.
Not really a fair comparison though, as it's also about whether the Rockets could've gotten more for Martin back when he was beasting in 2010, Scola back when he had value, Lowry traded earlier, and Dragic traded mid-season last year. Things like that which have netted us more assets. Not to mention Morey seemingly striking out on Patterson/Morris doesn't help matters. Also, tanking the past couple of seasons does not preclude us from getting Harden. It's not like we'd have less ammunition for the trade if not for contention. Yes, I know KMart was actually an integral part of this deal given OKC's need to contend, but surely a 3-way deal where OKC gets a starting caliber SG would've been reasonable to expect if we provided the picks in the deal. Don't get me wrong, I am psyched about the deal. A roster filled with youngsters with upside, including a 23-yr old all-star, is a great start to the rebuilding. But sacrificing the last 3 years would've still been more beneficial to the team long term, IMHO.
btw i dont mean to sound rude in this thread....just been drinking. i like the trade, but i still don't know where this is going.
Them tankers just got TOLD! But sadly, they will ignore this because they just want to be right for once. They're losers who prioritize their silly arguments over the benefits of the team they supposedly root for.
What did we get told? We are still going to be a non-playoff team. Does James Harden really add 20 wins to this team?
Who cares about the playoffs! Big ####ing deal if the we make the second round. Asik, Lin, and Harden will make the Rockets fun to watch, but they aren't a Championship contender. Nor will the Rockets lose enough games to draft in the top five and have a shot at picking up a player they can actually build a Championship around. All this trade does is guarantee the Rockets are stuck in mediocrity. If you go by what the Org is doing instead of what Les says, the goal is apparently to win around 50 games a year and always have at least one or two rounds in the playoffs in order to maximize ticket sales, but no Championships, not with this approach, not ever. And those of us who want Championships are just going to have to wait until Les sells the team, because we aren't adding a third trophy until we get an owner who understand a very simple fact of NBA life - top five players win Championships, not top 20, not top 15, top 5. Top Five. And that isn't Harden. He's not top five. Although trading for him just made it more difficult to get a top five player. And OKC? They butt raped us. They know Morey was desperate and swooped in and picked up Martin (perfect for them), Lamb (perfect for their future) and the Toronto pick, plus they avoid overpaying Harden. Unbelievable.
You're missing the context. Superstars traditionally either go to Big Market teams or Contenders. NY, LA, SAS, OKC, LAC and Miami are all salary locked for the next 3 years. The luxury tax is also extremely punitive. It's the #1 reason why OKC didn't pay Harden his max contract... they KNOW he'll get max deal offers during FA, so even IF they match, the team would have been hamstringed. So, the question is, as the top tier players become available over the next 2 years... what are those players going to be looking for? #1 - Max money - Only so many teams will have cap space over the next 2 years. Eliminate alot of teams. #2 - Supporting cast (elevate to playoff contention). Harden is a legitimate all star. Asik is at a minimum a top 10 center, potentially top 5. Lin will most likely be at worst an average starting point guard (top 15-20), with up side. That's 3/5 positions covered. #3 - Ability to build their marketing brand. Houston is the 4th largest city in the US. It headquarters alot of corporations. AND it happens to be the most popular team in China, made dramatically more popular with the presence of Jeremy Lin. #4 - Upside. Youngest team in the NBA. There's TONS of potential on this team. It's not loaded down with Vets near the end of their careers. Add that all up and you potentially have one of the most attractive teams in the league for Free Agents. Toss in that Morey will most likely acquire additional assets to use as trade fodder, and the odds are good at least 1 or 2 of the young players will turn out to be VERY good players, and it's very possible that the Rockets can snag another top tier player at the end of this year or the following year. I'm sorry that you can't see how this does nothing but help the Rockets short and long term... it's obvious to most fans AND analysts that the Rockets made out VERY well.
WTF? If the Rockets can make it to the 2nd round this year with a roster filled with players under the age of 23, how is their future not ridiculously bright? Especially with the Spurs and the Lakers about to go into rebuilding mode, Dallas with Dirk on his last legs, and exactly ONE sure-thing contender for the next 5 years? My goodness, if the Rockets can even come close to competing in the west this year, I'd be ecstatic about our future.
i completely see where you are coming from. but i dont know where this very very young team is headed. they may surprise you with another big trade in the next year. harden will be an easy guy to root for. hell we could have a few injuries this year and still end up with a really good pick. I'm very back and forth on this trade usually im not when it comes to the rockets.
Superstars are found at the top of the draft? He just posted the top 5 picks for the last two years, that would be the top. When you tank, there's no gaurantee you will get the #1-2 pick, there's something called the NBA lottery. What #1 picks did LAL, SAS, BOS, NYK and Mia used to turn their franchise around? They built a majority of their roster through FA.
What you got TOLD? Please, teams would be tanking for Harden, a top 5 draft pick. NOW we got a young player better than a top 5 draft pick and more proven without tanking. It's basically accelerating your process of tanking and you're still not happy? Wtf is wrong with you? You expect a top 5 NBA player from the draft or what? Are all pro-tankers that dense?
Harden is not top 5 but the Rockets must think he has that. Morey did say he was a franchise piece. If they think that then this was a good move. Do I think Harden will be a elite player. Nope. But the numbers are actually on his side and indicate that he can be. Now it's time to find out. We wanted a top 5 draft pick and we finally got one.
Fair point about the new CBA. Maybe things will be different then. Again sorry for sounding harsh....I was just reacting. I've a couple cervezas tonight. Btw...I still don't know where this franchise is going. I can't see the Harden, Lin, Asik core and these rookies ever competing for anything.
I'm very happy about the trade, but it's kind of funny to see CXbby start a "told you so" thread. Unless Marcus Morris suddenly turns out to be a hall of famer, well... .
Dude u know that u can only get a top 5 NBA player by trading or FA right? That's ONLY if the player actually WANTS to play in the city. I don't see your point of posting what you just said in this thread. If you're implying that we should tank to get that top 5 NBA player, you're delusional. It won't come from the draft anytime SOON.
No they wouldn't. Harden is a nice player, but he was a 3rd guy on a team that lost in the finals. He is about that....a 3rd best player on a good team. I still don't know where this franchise is going. In what world does this core win a championship? We still are lacking a go to scorer. Harden is not a go to scorer. It's like we are just grasping at whatever might be decent and taking a chance at that. I like the value for the trade, but I don't like the move overall. I just don't get it.
No, the Rockets need an elite level star, and they are normally found in the top five. This is not the same thing. CF has become like Fox News, where nuance and complexity are buried under shallow soundbites. OMG, Rox got a top 5! (uh, not exactly) OMG, Rox got better! (yes, but getting better is not the goal) OMG, Rox Morey got the guy he wanted! (he also wanted Gasol)
They drafted a guy with top 5 potential. The numbers say that he can be a lot better than a 3rd scoring option. Actually some people are wondering why the Thunder did not trade Westbrook instead. Fact is, Harden is 23...is a Olympian and likely will only improve, how much so is the question. He's a top 5 SG RIGHT NOW at 23 years old, that is difficult to pass up on. It's a matter of opinion on whether or not he can become a perennial all-star type of player...but really that will be the case for any player you draft in the top 5. He's coming here to play a bigger role. Yeah he's sucked in the finals. Again, he's 23 better players have sucked in the finals as well. Right now we just wait and see what we got, it really would be no different than any other player we could have drafted in the top 5 any year.
What about his game will improve? Will he shoot 55% fg% and 45% from 3pt land? Will his ability to distribute improve? I don't see that happening. Will he become a dominant defender? Maybe in a perfect world. You state he will improve. Yes I hope he will improve, but will he turn into a franchise player? I can't see it. I just don't see his "franchise" talents. Maybe I just haven't watched James Harden enough.
