The issue of Abortion in accordance to Christian beliefs

Believe it or not, I'm not being "hostile," but rather strongly disagreeing with your arguments. You say that if a woman feels demonized because she is being forced, against her will, to have an ultrasound before having an abortion, then "she doesn't know the definition of the word and that's a shame." That's your freakin' opinion, juicystream, and I know several women who are livid at what they see as a gross intrusion on their individual liberty, their right to privacy, and they also feel stigmatized by such an absurd, rediculous, and humiliating procedure being done to their body without their permission in order to have an elective medical procedure. They don't understand the word? You don't understand them, which isn't surprising, given what I've read, given that you're a man, and they aren't, and given that these rediculous "laws" are passed largely by men. Men with your kind of attitude towards women.

Hostile? Reality.

 

I'm not juicystream.

I have no problem with them being upset about an invasion of their privacy, thinking it's absurd, stupid, "rediculous", humiliating, etc., but is not being demonized to have an ultrasound.

You don't know a thing about me or my attitude toward women beyond what you are projecting onto me through your histrionics. I understand the female position on the matter which is why I don't attack them for it and haven't demonized a woman who wants an abortion in anyway.

 

As long as abortion is legal, women shouldn't be forced to view an ultrasound.

 

Actually, in Texas, the sonogram law was passed by both Republicans AND Democrats, both men AND women.

I totally disagree with the trans vaginal sonogram portion of the law, but to say that it is the product of men and that women did not have any say in the matter is inaccurate. The HHS chair is a woman. Even Wendy Davis voted for it. One of the co-authors of the bill is a woman. Out of the 4 people who offered amendments, only one was a female, and one was a Republican. 3 of the 5 most influential Texas Senators are women (Ds and Rs) who voted for the bill.

Juicy, I am a little confused. What word is it that they don't understand?

Why is it that men don't get a say in abortion? Just because it isn't our body, doesn't mean it isn't our offspring. Why are we forced to sit silent while these women murder our children?

 

I referred to you as juicy too, sorry. I copied what Deck said haha.

 

<------not juicystream


The word is demonized.

Being forced to get a sonogram before you can get an abortion may be stupid, an invasion of privacy, ridiculous, ineffective and a waste of money, but it is not being demonized. My point was that deckard calling people monsters and using ridiculous comments about wishing someone was raped is demonizing. Saying you should get a sonogram is not.

 

Ya sorry about that. Okay, I just didn't catch which word you were referencing.

Here is a question: If the sonogram was not transvaginal (which I am under the impression it HAS to be with early stage abortions), would you be okay with the law?

 

This is the frusturating thing about Deckards posts. It is very hurtful, and you'd likely not meet a woman I've ever been friends with to say things like this. Despite my very pro-life stance, I've never quit being friends with someone that has had an abortion, or said anything negative to them before or after the decision. Even with my stance, I don't consider anyone a monster for having had an abortion. I just understand that it is different for them. I even said I would compromise on non-surgical abortions, which would happen to protect the vast majority of rape victims.

 

I think it is weird for the legal position to be that abortions are legal, a fetus is not a life BUT we want to prevent as many abortions as possible.

The "safe, legal and rare" meme is peculiar to me. If you don't believe a fetus is a life, why do you care how many there are? (asked not out of hostility but out of genuine curiosity)

I have a family member who is completely pro choice, doesn't think a fetus is a life but thinks we should work to reduce abortions. I don't get it.

 

That's one of those questions that is so unbelievable that you don't get it that it's impossible to answer.

 

Well, I wish you'd try.

If you don't think a fetus is a life, just a clump of cells and by extension an abortion is just ridding yourself of that clump before it becomes a life AND you don't want to tell a woman what to do with her body, how do you justify telling her she has to have a test done on her body and then see the results?

(Edit: I recognize that the above position is NOT the position of all pro-choicers)

 

That people really to see it as more than a clump of cells, but not necessarily a person?

That abortions are mostly preventable surgeries?

That it takes an emotional toll on most women that even consider, let alone follow through with an abortion?

Probably varying degrees of all 3.

 

So it's more like the required counseling for plastic surgery? Making sure you understand what you are doing to your body and mind? I thought the purpose of the sonogram law was to try to convince people not to have one and go ahead and have the baby?

 

I think most pro-choicers (and most people who actually go through with getting an abortion) understand what it can become. They understand if they took no action, that a little baby would be the result. But for whatever reason, they don't feel they can carry the baby to term, so they make a choice that they struggle with mightily. I'm one of those who believe that those who use abortions as a form of birth control are a very small minority of those who have this procedure done. The more education people have regarding contraception (including access) and abstinence (even if I think it's foolish to make this the only preventative method), the less abortions there will be and the better off we'd all be (other than those who run the GOP who are probably the last people who actually want abortion outlawed).

I'm also pro-choice, and my choice is to never agree that my significant other should have an abortion if she were to become pregnant again. I've always been personally anti-abortion. Just have never felt it is my right to tell others how they should believe or act on this issue.

 

How do you define "using it as a form of birth control" for your thought process?

Agree with this. I support sex education in the fullest. I don't think anyone has ever had sex BECAUSE they learned about it in a sex ed class. I honestly don't get how people can even think that way.

I don't understand this at all?

 

I am going to take a stab at it and assume he is stating that the GOP wants more abortions because they tend to be minorities who generally don't vote red...not true, but I can imagine that was the root of his statment.

 

I don't think there is enough thought given to why a woman would want an abortion.
What choices would lead up to such a decision.

My sister's boyfriend pressured her and threatened her through 2 abortions it was abusive and frightening for her, she has been traumatized to an extreme. She still harbors guilt, fear and deep anxiety and bitterness.

I know a lot of men who are more thankful for abortion than women are.

The discussion we should be having is answering why would a child birth be unwanted.

 

It's one of the reasons abortion was made legal, women were being forced into dangerous "alleyway abortions."

Once again though, this was 40 years ago, women have MUCH more power now. I think you're right, the men benefit the most with abortions, but that doesn't make them right. Men are more-often than not are responsible for child support, the court supports the woman in custody battles 9 times out of 10. We forget the impact of good father figures, see the black community who suffer from this more than any other minority.

I would bet men are responsible for 9/10 pregnancies, duh! you might say. But what I mean is I find it completely reasonable that in 9 out of 10 cases the man pressured the woman to have sex without a condom, or to have sex in general. Women are going to have to be stronger, families are going to have to provide basic structure, and educators are going to have to educate males and females about the consequences of their actions. It will take a collective effort. Schools will also have to consistently punish sexual harassers and teach kids at a young age that these things are unacceptable.

 

Women are responsible for their actions. Women enjoy sex. It is not my experience at all that women feel pressured. Perhaps losing their virginity, but afterwards, most chicks want to have sex again.

 

IIRC the studies I read said that half of all women who have an abortion have another one.... so it's not really about naivete. I'm more interested in the philosophy and values behind the laws than anything.