1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Francis - Turnover Prone and No Passing

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Rockets34Legend, Jan 21, 2003.

  1. Apollo Creed

    Apollo Creed Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    4,449
    Likes Received:
    3
    If Yao gets too tired to where he can't shoot over a SIX FOOT TEN player, there's no way in hell he needs 25-30 shots a game. That's just absurd. Having the offense run through him won't make him LESS tired.
     
  2. Apollo Creed

    Apollo Creed Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    4,449
    Likes Received:
    3
    Truer words have never been said.
     
  3. wizkid83

    wizkid83 Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,347
    Likes Received:
    850
    I'll agree with this quote in 3 years. Look back to July, I've been pro-Yao since we got the first pick (one of the only few), but this recent bandwagon jumping by more than half of the people on this board is rediculous. Looking at the first part of your quote I see 2 flaws. First Yao's physical condition in of its self prevents Yao from being the focal point of the offence, he's too tired to do so. Second, we are no longer in an ISO offense but a movement offense that still uses our guards penetration ability to get open, the diffrense is the ppl without ball actually moves making it easier for them to get open.

    Let's now go down and analyse the second part of your argument. Once again I see 2 flaws. First, during the glory years, there was no movement. Most fans on this board complained about that. They hate it that we dump it down and let the defense dictate our offense. Check the threads from 5 years ago if possible. Second, "this one on one pull up crap is gonna get us in back in Lotter", we lost to a good team, it happens. We are still doing much better than last year and I believe we can avoid lottery this season. Look at our record and the teams we've beaten, we are a good team with 2 straight bad nights, it happens.

    Let's finally get to the third part of your argument, "all the other anouncer said that we should use Yao more" All the other anouncers said we shouldn't have drafted Yao, should we've listened to them then? Have more faith in the orgainization plz.
     
  4. carayip

    carayip Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Messages:
    2,135
    Likes Received:
    20
    I never said Yao needed 25-30 shots. Steve/Cat could still get their 20+ shots as far as I am concerned. But do they have to do it without letting their other 4 teammates touch the ball every possession? Even ballhogs like Jordon/Kobe know what ball movement is.
     
  5. wizkid83

    wizkid83 Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,347
    Likes Received:
    850
    If Yao would've been on the GS team, they would've exploited him to sell tickets, made him play 40 min/ game from day one before he even gets adjusted. Ten game into the season after which fatigue and lack of adjustment cause Yao to have a horrible start and fans stop coming, they'll declare he's a bust and sit him for rest of the season.
     
  6. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    57,785
    Likes Received:
    41,212
    We've hit a rough spot, no question about it. The Laker win was great, but we seem to have used up our juice. The thud we heard recently was Yao hitting "the Wall", our starting backcourt's excessive minutes are catching up with them, Griffin is a banged up kid, Posey is new and still learning the offense, and guys who have barely played in real games are suddenly getting minutes.

    I'm sure I've forgotten something, but aside from that, everything is just peachy. :rolleyes:

    Nice post, francis 4 prez.

    Oh, and I am having a hard time with a bunch of the new posters having names almost exactly like some folks that have been around for awhile.

    What an evening.
     
  7. carayip

    carayip Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Messages:
    2,135
    Likes Received:
    20
    In the Dallas game, I saw either Steve or Mobley brought the ball up court, several dribbled or used a pick, then drived or put up a jumper at first chance. Every time. The other players didn't even touch the ball in the possession. Even it's no ISO offense, it's also dumb offense. It's an offense which discouraged ball/players movement and didn't get players involved at all. Couldn't the shooters realize that even if they made the first few shots this way, it would be much easier for the opponents to defend 1 or 2 instead of 5 players later in the game. Taking over is not equal to shooting the ball the first time you get it.

    Ha... again taking over is not equal to dominating the ball you know. If Steve passes the ball, he could still get it back you know. Actually more ball movement mean easier shots for him as a result easier for him to take over. Totally ignoring your teammates and not even letting them touch the ball is just plain stupid.

    And you must not watch much of Jordon. He took many shots and he didn't get them by being the only one touching the ball every possession. Even Jordon's really this way, can I say that Steve is not and will never be a Jordon.
     
  8. carayip

    carayip Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Messages:
    2,135
    Likes Received:
    20
    And may I add that with the talent we know we have, it hurts to see us play this crap offense.
     
  9. Rockets34Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    23,342
    Likes Received:
    21,209
    The Rockets aren't at the level the Mavs are. The offense that the Mavs have put together is a high-powered offense w/ a spreadout offense that gets it to the wide-open man. I saw that so many times during the game. The defense was pathetic. And when Francis brought the ball down, he was doing Iverson-like moves, i.e. driving in 1 on 5, jacking up a shot w/ no interior offensive rebounding, etc. It just sucked.

    46 REBOUNDS (18 OFFENSIVE) = 86 POINTS :confused:

    How does that equation work?!? Only the Rockets can put something together like that. Cato, in his 18 minutes, put up 3 points and 10 boards. The man was a monster!! He was being so aggressive even when we had a chance in the 3rd. It's sad that Rudy doesn't realize the hard work that Cato is putting forth. He should be starting right next to Ming. Griffin is a wuss. Jefferson a.k.a. The-One-Who-Got-Away is a star in New Jersey. How long we going to give EG? That boy (and YES I MEAN BOY) isn't playing in a league w/ MEN! He's not being aggressive and playing like a PF!

    It would be nice to see some distribution of the ball and seeing some other people take the shot. I hate it w/ a passion to see Francis when he gets the ball on the top of the key and starts dribbling and everyone just stands there and watches. It throws the whole offense off and the Mavs just sit back in that sorry zone and clog up that middle. Rudy really needs to sit this team down and talk fundamentals in getting a passing game going and getting Ming more touches.

    Check this quote out from http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=230121006

    "When you shoot 43 free throws and outrebound a team, you figure the game is going to be close, but 30 points off turnovers ... holy Moses!'' Tomjanovich said. "We had horrible decision-making.''

    Rudy speaks and needs to do something about it.
     
  10. Glyyde

    Glyyde Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    0
    is Francis the one who duwan to pass or is it bcos there's no one on the team running around to find open spaces? as a PG, it is important that ur teamates run around and create open spaces themselves rather than the PG himself create open spaces for them by driving into the paint to draw defender and then pass it out.... this way of passing create more TOs than assists....

    is it really Francis prob if u guys are saying everyone just watch him? I will say it is not his fault...... players must run off the ball and create space for each other...... but then, I dun have the privilege of watching the game.... but from what I saw in the lakers game, almost all Francis passes is from driving in and throwing out to his teamates who is standing there and wait for him to drive and kick it back out..... this wun work for every game.....

    just my thoughts.....
     
  11. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2000
    Messages:
    20,887
    Likes Received:
    12,980
    And then he said, "We'd better run some more isos...or something."
     
  12. wizkid83

    wizkid83 Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,347
    Likes Received:
    850
    What Glyyde said, is true. Guys need to try and get themselves open. Also, our offense is currently based around making the defense collapsing around our guards and then dumping it off to the open or cutting player. Look at the Bull's last championship and especially the last couple of plays, that's kind of offense we are running except we're putting Francis in place of Jordan. I know Yao can at one point later on be justified as the focal point of the offense but not right now, he's tired and inconsistent. To take full advantage of our guards currently being our focal point, this kind of offense is what works best.
     
  13. Rockets34Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    23,342
    Likes Received:
    21,209
    Even if they do get open, you don't notice Francis pulling back, dribblin and dribblin and dribblin at the top of the key, and then driving in on 5 people in that zone that crams the middle. That's crazy! He doesn't have any peripheral vision to see on his left or right. There is always someone open on the 3-point line when he jacks up some crazy shot in the lane. He needs to look for these open guys in order for them to contribute.
     
  14. Glyyde

    Glyyde Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    0
    maybe while he is jacking up shots in the lane, there's lots of defender around him and blocked his view? I am not trying to defend Stevie or what here, just giving my point of view on a PG play.....

    if he is dribbling at the top of the key when someone is open, that is of course, unforgivable..... but when he is shooting in traffic, sometimes its just hard to look around for teamates especially when u are the focal point and get surrounded by 2-3 defenders.....

    again, just my thoughts.....
     
  15. slinslin

    slinslin Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2002
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    0
    I thought the Mavs defense was so bad it was so easy for Marbury to drop 41 points 11 assists and ZERO turnovers on them. Doh!
     
  16. MysticRyder

    MysticRyder Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    0
    Without Steve hogging the ball we might have had a better game.

    :D :D :D :D :D
     
  17. wiredog

    wiredog Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    4
  18. wizkid83

    wizkid83 Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,347
    Likes Received:
    850
    Not true, if players are hitting their shots and moving around, MOST of the time Steve will get them the ball. He wouldn't get as much assist as he does if he doesn't. This team biggest problem is that they really can't make enough open shots. Outside of Rice we really don't have any pure shooters.
     
  19. Yetti

    Yetti Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    9,589
    Likes Received:
    529
    The Franchise IS a score first and maybe pass second. That is why he is a weak Point Guard and a fairly good Shooting Guard.When everyone gets this, then there is a chance we can move on!
     
  20. acizlan

    acizlan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2002
    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    0
    really? since no else in this team can make open js?
     

Share This Page