I just have to say the Suns are not elite and were not elite last year. I can't see how someone would put them on the same plane as LA, Portland, Miami, or even San Antonio. As far as the Rockets being better than the Suns this year, why wouldn't they be? When the two teams played last year, the Rockets routinely looked to be the better team. Both teams were shorthanded I know, but the Rockets' strengths (guards) went straight at the Suns' strengths (backcourt) and more than held their own. You know Francis and Mobes have improved more than their backcourt this year - add that to Mo Taylor's addition and I think you have a better team than the Suns.... ------------------
Kidd-Francis Hardaway-Shandon Googs-Wiz Robinson-MoTay Dudley-Dream/Cato Rogers-Mobley off the bench Some good matchups, wouldn't you say? ------------------ In order to be a success in life, you need 2 things: 1. Don't tell everything you know.
Kidd vs Francis edge Francis Hardaway vs Shanndon edge Hardaway Googs vs Walt edge Googs Robinson vs Maurice edge even Longley vs Cato edge Cato Bench mobsters Rogers vs Mobley edge Mobley BRING ON THE DAMN SUNS!!!!!
At this current time, Kidd is still better than Francis. 1, at the most 2 more years, and then.. ------------------ The Serious Police are watching. Follow the rules or be assimilated. Shandon is underrated.
Elite huh? Man then Phoenix will beat out Utah, Portland and Lakers. They are the elite, everyone else in the West are looking in from the outside. Yeah Phoenix and Houston are looking from the outside. Yeah Phoenix is good but come on elite. Seattle got what they wanted, wonder if Maurice is thinking twice now? Lakers are really smiling, NY will trade Spree or Houston and Phoenix were the guys who got the great center uhhh.... what's his name Dudley. He is a better center than Longly though. I'll give you that much. I still think Malone plays the center position for his team every time he walks on the court. The other tall guy is there just to foul the other center. Just like how Dennis Rodman was the center for San Antonio and Chicago. The true big man in Utah is Karl Malone. ------------------
Well, technically, that should be a rookie with too many consonants in his name followed by Dudley (Longley's in NY now), but that still gives a huge edge to Cato ------------------ [This message has been edited by Launch Pad (edited September 22, 2000).]
Kidd & Delk vs Francis & Mooch - edge PHX Hardaway & Elie vs Shandon & Cat - EVEN Robinson & Marion vs Walt & Langhi - edge PHX Googs & Rogers vs Mo & KT - EVEN Dudley & Tsakalidas vs Dream & Cato - advantage HOU Looks pretty even to me. Most posters had the Rocks at around 45-48 wins so I'm sure that would be reasonable for the Suns, too. ------------------ GATER
Didn't anyone here see Franchise take Kidd to school last season. Well IMO Francis is already better then Kidd. The only point gaurd that is better then Francis is Payton. ------------------ Miggidy Markell says: 1. Eastcoast is da sh*t 2. Rockets rule 3. Hip/Hop is dope 4. Buy the new Ruff Ryders album! Miggidy Markell is watching Stay STRAPPED & WATCH ya back or be Assimilated.
Francis won't be able to touch Kidd until he cuts off the *frickin* turnovers and plays defense. Kidds probably the best playmaker in the game. Don't value flash over substance. ------------------ Shandon Anderson rocks. The lottery sucks. Playoffs 2001.
Team Versus Player This is not a new concept in discussions. But it never ceases to amaze me how we start out comparing teams to teams, then quickly jump to players versus players to make our respective case. Some of the best rostered teams, player for player are left at the altar every year at playoff time. Indiana was in the finals last year because of consistent TEAM play and a flexible game plan. Utah perennially makes a run at the ring, due to TEAM play not individual players. There is only so much "Malone and Stockton" did this or that, before the astute viewer sees that Jazz success is predicated on team play. (I find it as embarassing as anyone to have to use the Jazz to make a point!) The NBA championship ring was handed to the Lakers last year because Shaq played within a TEAM-actuated offensive system, and because Kobe learned that two-way ball was the (unselfish and) TEAM-way to compete. Phoneix versus Rockets The best comparison between these two teams is to look at: 1. the team chemistry (that often over-used and misused phrase), 2. the team effort (sadly missing by some individual players on all teams, but blatantly lacking in most mid-tier teams and totally absent in the bottom rung teams), 3. the overall depth of talent (every team hasc 240 minutes of play time per game, and finding who to put out there and when is what seperates the W from the L) 4. the preparation The Test 1. Chemistry - Rockets. By a wide margin as these young guys have grown from seemingly "playground scrubs thrown into the real world of professional basketball" to a cohesive blend of "tight homeboys on a mission to plunder anything in front of them". The attitude is infectious. The egos have been checked at the door. The FAMILY is the focus. 2. Effort - Even. Both Phoenix and the Rockets struggled through some injuries and had to rely on some unlikely heroes. The fact that we had the #1 & #2 Sixth Player should not be lost on anyone. This team had key players step way-up to grab the reins when needed. The intestinal fortitiude of the Rockets and the Suns has never been in question. If anything, that is what makes these two teams one of my favorite matchups over the last several years. 3. Depth of Talent - Rockets(but almost even). The shear number of talented players at positions is not what makes the Rockets slightly ahead in this category. It is the varied multi-dimensional talents that the key players of the rotating nine, brings to the game. A few examples: Shandon can be explosive in offense when given the light, but he plays a smothering defense that many find difficult to breakout. Francis's defensive game has improved enormously this summer (How many have actually seen him play the last two months?). Last year as a ROOKIE, his offense struggled during key ball-control periods, a condition that is overcome when given the time to experience his new role. Kidd, is a great player. But, friends he is at the top of his game. This will be a good matchup (PG vs PG) but don't be too surprised if Francis consistently makes the grade a step or two above Kidd. Everytime they meet. The varied talents of Mobley (1,2 positions and as a 3 guard set) are best heralded by the vast number of teams that courted him this trade season. Penny Hardaway is one dimensional. Nuff said. And, Mo Taylor is also somewhat one-dimensional but his shooting and banging to the net will cause such havoc when saddled with our backcourt. Very likely his defensive skills or diminshed lack thereof, will not even come into play. A two guard without defense is one thing, but a power forward who can hit them at 16 feet, and get rough underneath is a whole other "kettle of fish". Especially in the West. Rodgers is a study in two way play but remains stagnant in some games. Especially if he is banged around under the net a couple of times early. He IS talented, but he needs growth in areas that professional forwards should have grown already. His foot postioning last year was poor. He lunged and drove too far off the net. It is not difficult to get him to change his shot in the air. Matching him will not be as difficult as last year. Googs is a non factor. I am sorry for those die-hard Googs fans but despite getting plenty of quality touches every game, he has fallen off considerably in the past two seasons. Anyone remember a highlight blast or key stop by Googs last season? How about an intense attitude? Sorry. There is a reason he was on the trade blocks all trade season long. 4. Preparation - Rockets. Again, by a wide and distant margin. Rudy and company have the best prepared team in the NBA. Bar none. We all thought so, and were not surprised when the Olympic players and press kept throwing superaltives at RT since the first TEAM USA practice. More importantly last season Rudy himself went through a learning process. He became enthralled with the game again. He "brokeout" from old, tired, predictable, stale, set plays. Got back to his old "Rudy Ball" attitude and let the kids play. If anything, he did not have to spend an eternity soothing egos, or consciously spreading the ball around amoung old veterans. He prepped for the game. Studied the videos and outs. Developed a gameplan. Then easily sold it to an eager bunch of talented colts. <marquee> <h=4> Rockets Beat Suns!!!! </h></marquee>
HOOP-T, I'm not going to argue with you about that - I agree. If you read my second post up above, I acknowledge that he is mediocre. I just took exception to some of the lowly remarks directed at him. Not sure what he has done in the Olympics. As for being an "Aussie homer" I'll act like one whenever I want - you guys can't hide forever . ------------------ Current Rocket's Salary & Contract Info
davo, Touche'! I am a homer too, in certain respects. I did dig up Longley's stats for grins. He is avergaing about 7 ppg and 5 rpg so far. ------------------ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
OK Davo, is it absurd to believe that the suns wouldn't replace The Great Champion Luc Longley with Tsakalidas unless they were getting a better player? Longley may have been a decent player back when he played with the bulls, but if we are going on what players use to be, then go ahead and give the rings to the rockets, because the Dream is the most dominant big man in the league. Isn't he??? Someone needs to stop hitting the snooze button and wake up. Good morning! Now, this is just what I think. Tsakalidas must be pretty good if the suns were going to all the trouble to clear the way for him to play, and everything I have read from the suns organization confirms just that. "HE'S AT LEAST AS GOOD AS LONGLEY, IF NOT BETTER!" ------------------ Dreams, are what teams are made of.
No, B2000, that is a reasonable deduction to make. The suns replaced Longley with Tsakalidas because they think they will be making overall improvements to their team - they are betting on Tsakalidas' upside. Instead of focussing on the past, as you say, lets focus on the PRESENT to make comparisions. Presently, Tsakalidas is an unproven commodity with no history in the NBA, but performed well in a Eurpoean league. The suns are taking a risk on. Presently Luc Longley is a starting center in the NBA coming off a poor season. Based on that present knowledge, I still find it very difficult for somone to say that "Tsakalidas is obviously better", which is my entire point. Using your logic, lets analyze the 1984 NBA draft. Portland chose Sam Bowie ahead of Michael Jordan. They obviously thought he was going to be better suited to their needs. So using Portland's assessment of talent, would you then have said at the time "HE'S AT LEAST AS GOOD AS JORDAN, IF NOT BETTER!"? You may have, and basing it on very little knowledge other than what Portland thought, you would have been proven wrong. Now I'm not saying that Tsakaladis won't be better than Longley - he may well be, but you are making an assessment based on who Phoenix thinks is better, and then stating that it is obvious! I don't have the same blind faith in an NBA franchise's decision making ability like you do. Who needs to wake up? I am under no illusion that Longley is a great center and I never said so, in fact I acknowledged that he is mediocre. I just pointed to his record, because it speaks for itself. He may not be a "Great Champion" Believe, but he is an "NBA Champion" ------------------ Current Rocket's Salary & Contract Info
Jason Kidd is not that good. If Phoenix ever makes it into the conference or league Final, his weaknesses would be exposed: slow feet, in-consistent perimeter game, and looks to pass when going left. Francis is good, but what separates good players from great ones are how well they perform in tight situations. Payton, Cassell, and Isiah Thomas are/were great PGs. Francis (and Jason Williams) will need to learn how to deliver when it counts. ------------------ The prettier the rose, the sharper the thorns.
U. Blue...sometimes I worry about you. Jason Kidd....slow feet???? He is one of the fastest players in the league, especially running the break. Man, when Kidd played here in Dallas, he was an absolute wonder to watch. He is one of the best passers I have EVER seen. He has jets in his shoes when he runs the break. Kidd and Payton are the two best PG's in the league right now in my opinion. First the Montross thing, now this!!! ------------------ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
We'll have to dis-agree, again. He might have appeared fast running next to Jim-Is-My-Hair-Okay Jackson and Jamal-Dallas-Ain't-No-Blue-Grass-Country Mashburn, but in reality, his speed is average. He doesn't have the reaction time to guard some of the faster PGs in the league. He might have jets in his shoes, but he doesn't have the rocket fuel, garden fertilizer, or an answer for the quicker guards in the league. ------------------ The prettier the rose, the sharper the thorns.
For now Kidd is better than Francis. Francis hopefully can be better but Kidd rebounds as well as Stevie, plays better D, has a much better To/Ast ratio. Francis is a better offensive player (scoring wise not necessarily as a passing PG but he can make plays). Good thing is Francis can learn to play better D (Kidd is not a Gary Payton he just has learned how to play) and hopefully will improve his to/ast ration as well. Francis can be better but he isn't yet. ------------------
U. Blue.....Kidd is FAST! Just watch him. Defensively, sure, he may not be as fast. It is harder to move from side to side and backwards in a defensive stance than straight ahead. But he can pour it on! The speed that is. Even Stevie does not have the end to end speed that Kidd does....yet. Stevie is a more explosive player, especially with the first step. Geeze, can't anyone back me up here? ------------------ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." [This message has been edited by HOOP-T (edited September 22, 2000).]
